removing tar from trunk...Fire or Ice ?

[Speed25]

actually, it would make your car understeer more, because the end that is lighter sticks better. :)

Err...according to every racing book I've ever read (including racing 6 years on my own), the opposite is true. If you don't believe, try this: Get halfway through a long sweeper, going pretty fast (edge of traction). Immediately let up on the gas pedal. The weight will shift the front, and the rear end will come out (or around if you're going fast enough). It's the most common mistake for new race drivers (chicken lift in the middle of a corner = spin).

[george graves]

Well, all I'm saying is that I can remove the tar, I can always put a sub and some tools in the back!...

[e30Matt]

It's all about weight transfer. When you brake entering a corner, where does the weight go? The FRONT of the car. If your car doesn't have anything holding the rear end down, it's going to try to lift. If you don't believe me, come drive my 325i. I did this, and it's easy as hell to spin on a rainy day now. I (sorta) regret it, but I'm not driving it anymore, so I don't really care all that much.

uhh, you're not supposed to break when you enter a corner anyway, unless you're trail braking your left foot should be on the floor!

You know what I meant. Braking before turn-in.

Well, all I'm saying is that I can remove the tar, I can always put a sub and some tools in the back!...

Ugh... oh well, whatever tickles your pickle.

[nando]

actually, it would make your car understeer more, because the end that is lighter sticks better. :)

Err...according to every racing book I've ever read (including racing 6 years on my own), the opposite is true. If you don't believe, try this: Get halfway through a long sweeper, going pretty fast (edge of traction). Immediately let up on the gas pedal. The weight will shift the front, and the rear end will come out (or around if you're going fast enough). It's the most common mistake for new race drivers (chicken lift in the middle of a corner = spin).

Uhh, you're giving an example of exactly what NOT to do while racing to try and say a front heavy car won't understeer?

that has nothing to do with removing weight from the rear when our cars really need weight removed from the front, either. having a front heavy car will make it understeer more when you aren't driving stupidly :P

[Skafrog]

how will having a front heavy car understeer? A light rear end will break traction before the heavy front, hence causing an oversteer.

[nando]

no, the lighter end STICKS better. your tires only have so much adhesion capabilities, and the force of your car weighing down on them uses some of that up. don't you think there's a reason performance cars like BMW, Porsche and Ferrari aim for 50/50 weight distribution?

man, if you guys think a heavier front end will make your front grip better, why aren't people adding 50lb sand bags to their engine compartments and taking all the weight out of the back? :roll:

[Speed25]

Nando, I don't mean to flame you, buy you should really do some research. I won't even go into the volumes of racing mags and books you could check, but I've read them and utilized them.

RACING EXAMPLE: I drove a perfectly-balanced formula car. After a long period at WOT (end of a long straightaway), the weight balance would be shifted somewhat to the rear. Without any driver input entering a corner, this would be an understeer condition due to more weight (and traction) at the back. If it was a wide-open sweeper, you would sometimes have to abruptly lift of the gas then put it back down to "reset" the car and transfer some weight (momentarily) to the front for increased traction on turn-in.

FWD EXAMPLE: Weight-induced understeer is a big issue for front-wheel-drive cars, because you're asking the front tires (well pretty much just the OUTSIDE front tire) to handle all the traction for acceleration, braking and turning. FWD race car owners get them as LOW as possible with big front air dams to create low pressure and grip at the front, since it bears all the load. Every FWD car I've ever seen on the racetrack (including the great Integra Type R) corners with the inside rear wheel WELL off the ground! The point? No weight on tire, no traction.

RWD EXAMPLE: Have you ever driven a small, rear drive pickup with no weight in the bed? You can spin the tires and do power slides with only about 80 horsepower! Add weight to the bed, and you have WAY more traction, even in a corner (slower overall though, due to increasing weight). Even my e30 is difficult to "hang out" the back if there are people in the back seat. If I could attach them to the front bumper (that'd be a cool ride ;) ), she would tail out at every corner if I floored it.

Again, I don't mean to flame, but you should read up more on vehicle dynamics. It's actually fascinating!

[e30Matt]

Nando, I don't mean to flame you, buy you should really do some research. I won't even go into the volumes of racing mags and books you could check, but I've read them and utilized them.

RACING EXAMPLE: I drove a perfectly-balanced formula car. After a long period at WOT (end of a long straightaway), the weight balance would be shifted somewhat to the rear. Without any driver input entering a corner, this would be an understeer condition due to more weight (and traction) at the back. If it was a wide-open sweeper, you would sometimes have to abruptly lift of the gas then put it back down to "reset" the car and transfer some weight (momentarily) to the front for increased traction on turn-in.

FWD EXAMPLE: Weight-induced understeer is a big issue for front-wheel-drive cars, because you're asking the front tires (well pretty much just the OUTSIDE front tire) to handle all the traction for acceleration, braking and turning. FWD race car owners get them as LOW as possible with big front air dams to create low pressure and grip at the front, since it bears all the load. Every FWD car I've ever seen on the racetrack (including the great Integra Type R) corners with the inside rear wheel WELL off the ground! The point? No weight on tire, no traction.

RWD EXAMPLE: Have you ever driven a small, rear drive pickup with no weight in the bed? You can spin the tires and do power slides with only about 80 horsepower! Add weight to the bed, and you have WAY more traction, even in a corner (slower overall though, due to increasing weight). Even my e30 is difficult to "hang out" the back if there are people in the back seat. If I could attach them to the front bumper (that'd be a cool ride ;) ), she would tail out at every corner if I floored it.

Again, I don't mean to flame, but you should read up more on vehicle dynamics. It's actually fascinating!

:nice:

[bimmerphile]

Ove would pwn you all with this thread.

[E30godz]

i concur.

[ryan_george]

actually, it would make your car understeer more, because the end that is lighter sticks better. :)

How does that make any sense?? You obviously get more friction with more weight, which in turn would give you more "stickyness", correct?
And if you are taking a corner, the whole car is accelerating towards the center of curvature of the corner. If the force of friction from the tires cannot match the force required from the centripital acceleration, then the mass will continue in a (somewhat) straight line, not curved. Thus, if the rear of the car is too light, what do we have?
Ding-Ding-Ding! Understeer!
I'm no physics major, but I hope I got everything somewhat correct with that blurb.

[mdistel]

Like Robert said. Heat gun, scraper (putty knife works well) and mineral spirits to clean it up.

I also rustoleumed the trunk. Those are the IE swaybar reinforcements.

Mark

https://www.e30m50.com

[LowR3V'in]

I just used a putty knife.
It came off real smooth :o

And yes, It give very little oversteer. ;)

[65Matt]

Some of you need to read Matt Miller's website on automotive myths and weight distribution: http://web.wt.net/~mmiller/Motorsports/Myths1.htm

To summarize for people that don't want to read the whole page:

overall lightness is more desirable than a good distribution of weight, so we never add weight to achieve a good distribution;