5 lug vs 4 lug

[Aptyp]

I'm not being uptight at all, I am also not being an elitist prick by saying "I did it the RIGHT way".... I don't knock anyone else's efforts.

e36 set up has a lot of advantages, and as you were saying if you did your setup for performance, then you'd recognize the fact that there are a lot more performance wheels available for e36's and e46's. Unless you did it for the looks? Don't get too uptight.

[e30s52]

I'm not being uptight at all, I am also not being an elitist prick by saying "I did it the RIGHT way".... I don't knock anyone else's efforts.

e36 set up has a lot of advantages, and as you were saying if you did your setup for performance, then you'd recognize the fact that there are a lot more performance wheels available for e36's and e46's. Unless you did it for the looks? Don't get too uptight.

How did I say I did it the right way? All I said is I like low offset wheels as in dish to the wheels. Yes the e36 does have alot of advantages and disavantages just like the e30 m3 has. And no I didnt do it for looks but sence I have 4 sets of wheels for my e30 and e34 it made more sence because they are all low offset wheels.

You need to stop putting words in other peoples mouth and calm down. I really dont know why you like bashing on people who have e30 m3 suspension. Everytime some one brings it up you get all butt hurt and try to tell everyone how much better your suspension is.


O and please tell me where I said it was the right way to do it. I would love to see that.

[Aptyp]

you are getting your panties in a bunch, aren't you? I was referring to this quote

E30 M3 5 lug is the only right way to do the swap...

that's why I didn't quote you... And no where I bash e30 m3 setups, I only bash cost of that bolt on. Unless someone gets a great deal on m3 parts, that swap is ridiculously expensive and pro's don't match the cons against an e36 swap. That's all I've been advocating all along.

The fact that you have e34 and e30 m3 swapped e30, that allows you to swap wheels is cool. If I had an e34, I'd definitely try and do m3 swap as well.

Don't accuse people of getting bent out of shape, when you're the one getting all tense behind your keyboard. :up:

[e30s52]

you are getting your panties in a bunch, aren't you? I was referring to this quote


that's why I didn't quote you... And no where I bash e30 m3 setups, I only bash cost of that bolt on. Unless someone gets a great deal on m3 parts, that swap is ridiculously expensive and pro's don't match the cons against an e36 swap. That's all I've been advocating all along.

The fact that you have e34 and e30 m3 swapped e30, that allows you to swap wheels is cool. If I had an e34, I'd definitely try and do m3 swap as well.

Don't accuse people of getting bent out of shape, when you're the one getting all tense behind your keyboard. :up:

No I am fine I was just pointing somthing out. I just misunderstood that. My mistake.

[Massive Lee]

I do not know if it was mentionned before, but a by-product of using e36 suspension components on an e30 is the reduction in caster. The front wheels will be located slightly at the rear of their original position. Less caster, and more likely to hit the splash panel. Maybe others who have experienced this swap can sneak in.

I still question the need to go to a 5 lug set-up unless the car is a high power road race car where increased load on hubs and bearings requires beefier components.

[Aptyp]

with e36 m3 spindles and 96+ m3 control arms caster is like stock. With offset bushings, caster is just perfect. No more rubbing anywhere, except on the inside wall at full lock.

No I am fine I was just pointing somthing out. I just misunderstood that. My mistake.

It's cool man :)

[z31maniac]

If it's perfect, why does GC sell a "bastard" kit to get the correct caster for a 5lug setup?

[Aptyp]

you keep talking about it, but show it to us please.

[Firestorm]

Nifty thing about 5-lug......325x25 discs are about $70 each ;)

[Aptyp]

As apposed to 280x25? Seriously, from economic standpoint and availability of parts. There's not much to compare.


Personally, M-systems make e30 m3 swap worth it. I'd love those wheels.

[91 318is]

I keep thinking more and more about doing a 5 lug swap down the road, mainly for the wheel choices. As I'm finding the E30 M3 setup runs about $1800-$2100 depending on who's selling it. I'm thinking more and more about running a E36 M setup in the front, ti/z3/m coupe setup in the rear.

From what I've read, the disadvantage of the E36 swap is the rear brake setup, the Ti stuff works, but there's not much aftermarket brake stuff for it?

What's the pro's and con's of each setup? I know the E36 M front swap is benefited from bigger brakes, the E36 setup costs less.

The E30 M3 setup allows for more wheel options, buuuuuuuuuuut what else is the advantage of the E30 M setup over the E36 M/ti setup?

[z31maniac]

you keep talking about it, but show it to us please.

All you have to do is go to the Ground Control site and type "bastard" in the search box. But since that seems a bit much to ask:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=812

[Bimmerman325i]

The E30 M3 setup allows for more wheel options, buuuuuuuuuuut what else is the advantage of the E30 M setup over the E36 M/ti setup?

Correct steering geometry and the ability to use bump steer/roll center spacers. Since probably 1% of people going 5 lug are concerned with the latter, I'll talk about the former.

The E36 struts lose front caster, some setups more than others. I have heard and read here that using X combination of lower control arms, lower control arm bushings, and camber plates will return the caster to stock-like numbers, but I have yet to see any numerical proof from an alignment rig. As far as I have researched (quite a decent bit too), the "fixed" front caster is simply a case of internet-gospel rather than actual verified proof.

I would LOVE for someone to post alignment specs proving this combination of parts has the same geometry as the e30 m3 stuff, or negligibly different. Until that happens, it's nothing but hearsay. To the people who keep saying this: prove me wrong, I challenge you. I will happily eat my words then and buy the e36 stuff if that is indeed the case.

The only E36 M3 suspension swap I have seen required camber plates maxed out for caster and camber and had maybe 1 degree of negative camber and still wacked out caster. If you have to run the plates maxed out to only get stock alignment numbers (i.e. you cannot adjust it more for track) then it's a pretty useless swap.

However, the steering geometry issue is pretty much not important for most people swapping the wheels. For people with an eye on tracking, these things are important.

Also, with e30 m3 stuff the brakes have no biasing issues to deal with. I have no idea about M3 front ti/z3/z3M rear biasing to be fair, but it is one less thing to be worried about going with the E30 M3 stuff.

All you have to do is go to the Ground Control site and type "bastard" in the search box. But since that seems a bit much to ask:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...ion.php/II=812

Does this kit fix the caster issue? If it does, that would be the way I'd do the swap.

[z31maniac]

Ccordng to Jay at GC and another member I've spoken with over on the GRM forum. That's why you get a new custom built strut housing.

[Aptyp]

It has nothing to do with strut housings, it's in the camber plate...


When you look at e30 vs e36 suspensions, strut towers of e36 are more upright, and that's what changes caster between two generations. If you have enough caster adjustment in camber plates, you don't even need e36 m3 control arms or spindles. I like their solution though. If you redrill your shock towers more to the front, you'd have exactly the same effect.


PS, I do like their built housings. GC machined housings are much better than stock stamped out ones.