Hawk HP Plus going squishy???

[CincinnatiKid]

First track day of the season this past weekend and I have brand new Hawk HP plus pads with super blue fluid freshly flushed and bled. Brakes felt great all sessions, except the last of the day they got really squishy with the pedal going all the way to the floor. The track isn't a brake heavy track so I'm confused as to why I lost the brake. Of course after I let it cool for a while I drove it home with no issues.

[nando]

they aren't really great track pads. You mentioned the track isn't as hard on brakes which is probably why they lasted you at all. I would give them about 2 sessions at our local track before they disappeared.

[gverelli]

Ive read many times that the hp+ are not good track pads and can dissapear pretty quickly. Never had personal experience but i have read it many many times by others. Get the ht10s and see how they perform

[jlevie]

The pedal going to the floor doesn't sound like pads going away. That sounds more like overheated fluid or a failing master cylinder. Cooling ducts to the front calipers goes a long way towards keeping the fluid from overheating.

HP+ pads are okay for novice, but not so good for anyone with experience. HT10's are a real race pad and thus a better choice. But in my opinion PF 06 or 01 pads are much better than the HT10's.

[nrubenstein]

I get much better life out of the PFs vs. Hawk track pads, and I haven't even burned through my stock of 01s to give the 06es a shot.

But yeah, pad fade doesn't feel like that. While the HP+ should NOT be used on track, it isn't your issue. The pedal going to the floor means something hydraulic failed. If the master cylinder is original, I would frankly just replace it. Beyond that, cooling is good.

[BlackSpeed66]

+1 for the PF06 pads. Big step up. It does sound like a bit of overheating going on. I fight with this myself as I've been in your place at the end of a few sessions. For me, braking on the track is vastly different than braking on the street and I find if I get 'namby-pamby' with the brakes on the track I wind up overheating them. Still room for improvement on the technique I guess.

Right now I'm actually rebuilding most of my brake system. New M/C and new seal kits for all calipers. SS lines while I'm in there. Kind of came to the realization that it's wrong to ask a 23 year old brake system to stop you consistently at the end of a straight going 100+

[jlevie]

+1 for the PF06 pads. Big step up. It does sound like a bit of overheating going on. I fight with this myself as I've been in your place at the end of a few sessions. For me, braking on the track is vastly different than braking on the street and I find if I get 'namby-pamby' with the brakes on the track I wind up overheating them. Still room for improvement on the technique I guess.

Braking correctly is probably the hardest thing to learn. In most cases on the track when you use the brakes you want to be on them hard enough to feel the ABS cycling some on the front wheels. That is all the tires will take for the conditions and it will be the shortest use of the brakes, thus maximizing the time available to cool them back down. If you don't have ABS, you need to be able to feel when the wheels are just about to slip (threshold braking). There is a little bit more braking available w/o ABS, but it much harder to manage threhsold braking, especially as you tire.

[CincinnatiKid]

I know the feeling is more related to hydraulic issues, but I've been over my brake system more times than I can count, everything is bled correctly, there are no leaks, fluid is brand new. What about brake hoses, would soft rubber cause this issue?

[hooken m]

i had same problem with pedal to the floor. my MC was original and it had crapped the bed. i bought a replacement off a member and my pedal feel is oh soo good

[jlevie]

I know the feeling is more related to hydraulic issues, but I've been over my brake system more times than I can count, everything is bled correctly, there are no leaks, fluid is brand new. What about brake hoses, would soft rubber cause this issue?

Nope. If the brake lines were bad and the cause the pedal would be soft all the yime.

[nrubenstein]

I know the feeling is more related to hydraulic issues, but I've been over my brake system more times than I can count, everything is bled correctly, there are no leaks, fluid is brand new. What about brake hoses, would soft rubber cause this issue?

Both SpecE30s that I worked on had phantom pedal to the floor issues. Both times, it was an old master cylinder.

Mind you, if you have old rubber hoses, replace them. You don't want one to pop on track and you might as well do it when you swap the master cylinder.

[Turd]

I have mushy Hawk HPS pads.

I've not found any issue as to why, except its the pads and I've heard other testaments to this as well. My entire hydraulic system is new down to the master, so thats what I'm left to figure until further investigating.

[nando]

ditch the pads. I thought my MC was bad and then I went from HPS to Pagids. I'll never use HPS again...