Custom 4 piston Ap brake kit

[Fidhle007]

I consider brakes a styling element. They look cool. AP is cooler than Brembo and also better. Brembo has cashed in on it's name and is even OEM on Chryslers.
The overkill position taken to it's logical conclusion would have us all riding Honda Cubs. I didn't really "need" any of the modifications I've done to this can or any other one that I've owned. I did it because I like them. A short shifter, faster rack, improved suspension, and a stereo that you can't fully appreciate over road noise are all overkill. To the hilt!

What the fuck are you talking about??? Brakes are never a styling element unless you MAKE them one, and if you make them one you should be driving a Civic Del Sol. You may not NEED any of the upgrades you've done but if you're telling me you did them solely for styling I'd be pretty surprised. I don't "need" any of the upgrades on my car but the only things that were done for styling were the wheels and the sideskirts. Everything else was done because I wanted a faster and better handling car. I also want one that stops quicker and if the larger rotors look good on the car while I'm at it that's great but it's certainly the last thing on my mind...

[Massive Lee]

Hi 1991 318is.

It is normal that you see anything as "just a mod" for estethical reasons, especially that your profile qualifies you as "Mod crazy". Bigger and stronger brakes included. And I will respect your point of view, as you may never have owned an e30 for one of its best assets: it is a great track car (specially the 318i) but does lack in the stopping department when driven hard. Sure it will stop fine for a couple of laps. But the braking distance will get longer and longer, requiring earlier and earlier braking points. Too small rotors, too soft calipers and not enough cooling. Sure you can spend $170 for a set of PF97 pads plus $250 fo cooling plates, but that's only a small (but expensive) Band-Aid on a major problem. So, spend a little more and solve it for ever. A side benefit is also that the car will look good "modded"

Also, let's not forget that many e30 owners have upgraded their motor to something more powerful, and therefore stronger brakes is mandatory for safety.

[Tom944]

Lee > perfect, I will see them when I see them ;). Just bad luck with the supplier then.

1991 318is > I really don't consider brakes a styling element. And I also don't consider a brake UPGRADE a styling element ;) ( there is a difference ). And Brembo also make very good calipers. Use them on the Porsche 944 Turbo which is comparable with the 996 GT3's at trackspeed and only positive feedback from me about them. (And I could really use the upgrade on the e30, see my one of my previous posts on the page before in this thread.)

[Madhatter]

Hey lee, last time i talked to you, you didnt have any E21 front stuff left, just wondering if you have since had some more hats made? interested in a kit for the front of the jps.

[Massive Lee]

Hi Madhatter.

I have two front sets left. Silver anodizing and stainless brackets. Inventory comes and goes. Actually, e21 and 2002 hats are just the same parts while only the brackets are specific.

[Madhatter]

can i grab a set for the front? have you still got my email? send me the price through for the kit and ill buy the rotors and calipers at a later date. :) Any problems with fitment under 15" wheels? ive got bbs ra's on the car at the moment.

[Massive Lee]

can i grab a set for the front? have you still got my email? send me the price through for the kit and ill buy the rotors and calipers at a later date. :) Any problems with fitment under 15" wheels? ive got bbs ra's on the car at the moment.

Check profile for fit. All 15" wheels are not equal. The 2002-e21 kits are a much easier fit than the e30 kits though.

Profile here.

http://massivebrakes.com/files/profile_e21_front.pdf

Rocket Industry in Australia can get the rotors-pads-calipers.

Kit is $600cdn + $133 shipping (7 days).
Kit includes two anodized aluminum hats, stainless caliper brackets, DOT compliant brakelines, hydraulic 90º fittings, all required fasteners (Metric and SAE).

[rwh11385]

Hi 1991 318is.

It is normal that you see anything as "just a mod" for estethical reasons, especially that your profile qualifies you as "Mod crazy". Bigger and stronger brakes included. And I will respect your point of view, as you may never have owned an e30 for one of its best assets: it is a great track car (specially the 318i) but does lack in the stopping department when driven hard. Sure it will stop fine for a couple of laps. But the braking distance will get longer and longer, requiring earlier and earlier braking points. Too small rotors, too soft calipers and not enough cooling. Sure you can spend $170 for a set of PF97 pads plus $250 fo cooling plates, but that's only a small (but expensive) Band-Aid on a major problem. So, spend a little more and solve it for ever. A side benefit is also that the car will look good "modded"

yeah... says the man selling the brake kits...

[Tom944]

yeah... says the man selling the brake kits...

Yeah true but he's right though. Standard E30 brakes are not what you'd call very good. Especially for trackuse, a brake upgrade is high on the list.

[Brian D]

yeah... says the man selling the brake kits...

Please....not this again.

Actually I think that Lee has brought a lot of tech to this site, and is not just here to sell his product. That in itself says a lot about the man. I don't see Rob Levinson here helping folks out.....

[rwh11385]

Please....not this again.

Actually I think that Lee has brought a lot of tech to this site, and is not just here to sell his product. That in itself says a lot about the man. I don't see Rob Levinson here helping folks out.....

He's quite helpful, upfront, and honest on bimmerforums. Just because he isn't on here trying to mislead people into buying a product he sells doesn't mean he isn't helpful. He has put a kit out there and knows those who want/need it will buy it, no need to attempt to convince someone of it. Besides, a big brake kit costs more than 90% of the cars on here are worth - if you had a business would you spend a lot of time here?

[Massive Lee]

Hey Lance, if you prefer, we can discuss suspension set-ups or driving technique if brakes is not your cup of tea. I am not bad at setting up racecars with a few wrenches and a pyrometer . I also have several tricks up my sleeves to improve e30s' suspension. And I am not a bad track driver either :pimp: Cheers to all. Eggnogs are coming our way pretty soon.

If you guys are interested in what I do beside misguiding r3v members , have a look here.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/The%20Parts%20Factory/

Here are some roll center spacers for 2002s machined in British Columbia for Massive, by Kowalski's bro.

[Brian D]

He's quite helpful, upfront, and honest on bimmerforums. Just because he isn't on here trying to mislead people into buying a product he sells doesn't mean he isn't helpful. He has put a kit out there and knows those who want/need it will buy it, no need to attempt to convince someone of it. Besides, a big brake kit costs more than 90% of the cars on here are worth - if you had a business would you spend a lot of time here?

So Rob is only "helpful, upfront, and honest" to those who can afford to buy lots of parts from him?

I could argue with you about this, but what would it prove? I don't share your high opinion of RL, and I don't share your apparent dislike of Lee. Beyond that, this will devolve quickly into a "are BBK's necessary", and that's been done to death here.

[Madhatter]

Not to be blunt or nasty, but you simply dont drive hard enough then, or you dont have the ability, i havent met anyone who races an e30 that hasnt atleast once pushed the limits of the braking system. Clamping ability aside, the main problem with the brakes is basically heat, both the ability to handle large amounts and the ability to shed it. To increase performance in these areas you really need to do one (or preferably both) of the following;

increase the surface area of the rotor by increasing the radial height.

or

increase the thickness of the rotor

Swapping to better quality pads and replacing your fluid with that of a higher boil point only prolongs heat soak issues where both the rotor and the pad compound has absorbed too much heat reducing your braking ability. Pads are designed to operate in a specific heat range, outside of this (especially if above the range) their frictional coefficient drops off significantly, so your braking suffers.

The other downside is because of their size, they have a reduced ability to dissipate heat, they end up trapping it in because they simply cant absorb and radiate enough of it away in between braking periods.

So what you can realistically end up with is a situation where both your pads and rotor get way too hot (ive actually seen the compound melt on an e30 before) which transfers this on to the caliper, especially in the case of cast iron or soft alloys used in oem items. Not only are you overloading the rotor/pad, but now because of the heat soak, the fluid boils and you have lost braking ability.

Its worrying that most people generally equate a lack of brake performance with a brake failure, ie out on the track and your pedal starts to soften up, equating it to performance loss. This sort of situation is not a performance loss, its a full system failure and its too late by then.

Ive purchased a kit because yes, my lap times can be increased by being able to brake later into a corner, its enough to drop inside some of the lighter cars and can make a world of difference. Since changing to better tyres i found the braking issues were actually magnified, because of the increased grip levels i found it was easier to carry more speed through a corner which lead to a higher average speed around the track. I simply dont drive enough anymore to really work on my ability, so a brake kit has made quite a difference. The other side of the coin is a preventitive one, on some tracks you may be able to hold off brake failure, but go to another track where high speed, deep prolonged braking is required and you will be in trouble. Id rather not have to worry about my brakes working when i go to grab the pedal, so many other things that need your full attention without having to worry about mechanical failure.

In the end its simply up to the person to gauge if they need a kit, its their decision to buy it and anyone purchasing one without doing some homework first is misguided.

In dealing with lee he has been happy to discuss my needs based on existing experience and any future plans for the car. Not once have i ever felt he was pushy or aggressive in trying to sell me the components and he's quite happy to talk about both his and other existing kits out there without any bias at all (even to the point where he will suggest different products if he feels you dont need a big kit). So in short, he's been nothing but a total professional and im confident enough to look at ordering another kit for the other car.

[rwh11385]

Ive purchased a kit because yes, my lap times can be increased by being able to brake later into a corner

wow, you increase your lap times, awesome!

In the end its simply up to the person to gauge if they need a kit, its their decision to buy it

That's what I believe as well, not to have some unscrupulous brake part retailer claiming it is impossible to track without his big brakes.

In dealing with lee he has been happy to discuss my needs based on existing experience and any future plans for the car. Not once have i ever felt he was pushy or aggressive in trying to sell me the components and he's quite happy to talk about both his and other existing kits out there without any bias at all (even to the point where he will suggest different products if he feels you dont need a big kit). So in short, he's been nothing but a total professional and im confident enough to look at ordering another kit for the other car.

In the comparison between RL and Lee on bimmerforums, it is quite clear that one is presenting information, and one is attempting to impose his opinion while sharing some info. Lee's behavior (with Trent) and dealing with opposition is not what I would ever call professional. Because, in the end, he isn't - this isn't a real business like UUC, it's more of a hobby - and that's reason enough not to trust the words coming from him more than a pal at the track. And I do have friends who are instructors of many years, and some are engineers, but would I trust their brake kit over a business who specializes in BMW racing equipment? No.

Is it cool that Lee is friendly on the forum? Sure. Is it cool to be Chicken Fucking Little and screaming our cars will fall down if we don't have BUG BREAKS!?! No way.