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E36 rack swap -THE correct location for the spacers

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    #16
    So the consensus is it's best to put the spacers at the top of the rack? I'm doing this soon and don't want to have to do it twice. Every thread I find on this is split on what's best.
    Zinno '89 <24v swap in progress>

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      #17
      Good stuff here.

      Originally posted by JonnyOg
      Anyone have a pic of the spacers on the top of the rack?


      AKG spacers. For whatever reason, I tried to place them on bottom first - but rack tube interfered with subframe mounting tab. Good to know top placement was better anyway.
      -----Zen and the Art of e30 Maintenance - / - Zen TOC - / - Zen Summary

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        #18
        Are these spacers required for the rack swap? Im about to install mine and somehow neglected to grab some of these. Can i put the e36 rack in without any spacer and still have the car be driveable?
        1990 332i, 4 door
        2008 KTM 990 Superduke
        2018 Golf R, 6spd manual (Pending delivery)
        2017 Mazda CX-5 GT
        2007 Z4M Coupe - Sold to very nice people

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          #19
          Originally posted by Varinn View Post
          Are these spacers required for the rack swap? Im about to install mine and somehow neglected to grab some of these. Can i put the e36 rack in without any spacer and still have the car be driveable?
          Special made spacers are not a must(just more expensive). Go to Lowes or some hardware store to pick up spacers(washers). I personally run three spacers on top and three below.

          The theory with the spacers on top makes sense, moves the rack down a bit more increasing bump steer. I really don't care since my entire setup is perfectly aligned and functions amazing. You will be gaining about 1/4" difference by putting the spacers(washers) on top instead of splitting. You are not harming anything one way or another. I doubt you will notice splitting or putting them on top or on the bottom.
          Last edited by F34R; 01-26-2013, 10:42 AM.
          ~ Puch Cafe. ~ Do business? feedback ~ Check out my leather company ~

          Instagram: @BWeissLeather

          Current cars:
          ~ '87 325 M30B35 swap
          ~ '87 535
          ~ 01 540 Msport 6spd
          ~ '06 X5 4.8is

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            #20
            I do have complete lathe setup at work, I CAN stop in on my way home from a concert tonight after I drop off the date. I'd rather not, but I can. This will let me machine them exact, does anyone know the precise size for the best results?
            1990 332i, 4 door
            2008 KTM 990 Superduke
            2018 Golf R, 6spd manual (Pending delivery)
            2017 Mazda CX-5 GT
            2007 Z4M Coupe - Sold to very nice people

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              #21
              A little over 1/2"
              Originally posted by codyep3
              I hope to Christ you have looks going for you, because you sure as fuck don't have any intelligence.
              2001 silver/Blk 325 cabby. SOLD
              1988 Blk/Blk e30 factory wide body kit car SOLD
              1992 DS/BLK 325 m-tech II apperance pack cabby SOLD!
              2002 325xit Sil/blk. SOLD
              2012 328i xdrive touring. Wht/blk. SOLD
              2009 135 cabby. monacoblue/blk leather SOLD
              2007 Z4m coupe. Silver grey/black/ aluminum. 1of50
              2010 F650gs twin
              2016 M235i cabby. Mineral grey/Red leather

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                #22
                Originally posted by Todd Black 88 View Post
                A little over 1/2"
                1+ I measured the space when I was searching for a spacer. Found that 6 washers fits a bit over 1/2(perfect).
                ~ Puch Cafe. ~ Do business? feedback ~ Check out my leather company ~

                Instagram: @BWeissLeather

                Current cars:
                ~ '87 325 M30B35 swap
                ~ '87 535
                ~ 01 540 Msport 6spd
                ~ '06 X5 4.8is

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                  #23
                  I'm gonna be stopping by my shop on the way home and machining a pair of spacers but in my sleep deprived state I cant remember what size the bolts were so I can drill an accurate bore. M8? And machine to about 12.5-13mm?


                  Also, random thing worth noting is that I did not have to bend any lines, I reversed the high pressure hose and it bolted up beautifully, it does come kind of close to touching the low press line however, but as it stands they are fully bolted in place. All I have left is the knuckle, spacers, control arms, and alignment.
                  1990 332i, 4 door
                  2008 KTM 990 Superduke
                  2018 Golf R, 6spd manual (Pending delivery)
                  2017 Mazda CX-5 GT
                  2007 Z4M Coupe - Sold to very nice people

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Varinn View Post
                    This will let me machine them exact, does anyone know the precise size for the best results?

                    Yes I do! We did this along time ago, but kind of forgot about it... This may only be true with the 95 m3 progressive rack, but the CORRECT way to relocate the rack is to split the spacers, .200" on top, and .350" on the bottom if I remember correctly. The way this was calculated was using a height gauge with a dial indicator to find the center line of the rod that actually moves back and forth. This was found on the stock rack, then found on the m3 rack, and the spacers were made to put the center-line right back into the same spot that it was from the factory. I will note that his car is on a stock suspension and nothing was changed to alter height.

                    In addition to this, since he was ditching the power steering he used the flaming river steering knuckles and it is a very good set up! I much prefer it to mine; which is a 328i standard rack, regular spacer set up on the bottom, and an AKG 75d poly flex disk (No P.S.).
                    sigpic

                    A man chooses, a slave obeys... Would you kindly?

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                      #25
                      On a lowered car I’m getting bumpsteer with spacers on top under a heavy bump condition. With them on top the tierod is angling upward noticeably (rack end is lower) relative to both ground and the CA partly because its lowered (not slammed though) but also because the rack has been moved down relative to the old rack (based on “Pantelones” data). On large bump this angle gets worse. all new OEM bushes, offset CA bush , GC coilovers, conservative neg camber

                      the bump steer correction kits/methods for the E30 all seem to put the tie rod in a more horizontal position thorough either spacer on the bottom of the strut to lower the strut end of the tie rod end, or a spacer between rod end and strut mount thus making it more “horizontal/parallel”.

                      I don’t think putting spacers on top is the gospel right answer nor do I think retaining the exact position of the stock rack is the best either. There may be other things at work than mean there is no 1 answer probably ride height is a big one but other parameters also probably affect this eg camber, caster, toe though maybe be second order effects . i know of people having spacers on the bottom and they say they have no bumpsteer

                      From I’ve researched making the tie rod angle more horizontal in the resting position is a good place to aim. I’ll be trying to do this but unfortunately I can’t put entire spacer on the bottom to test the differences because of exhaust clearance issues being RHD so can only put half either side…..
                      Last edited by digger; 09-30-2015, 07:10 PM.
                      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by digger View Post
                        On a lowered car I’m getting bumpsteer with spacers on top under a heavy bump condition. With them on top the tierod is angling upward noticeably (rack end is lower) relative to both ground and the CA partly because its lowered ..
                        How did you measure this? Or was it by feel? Keep in mind, the spacers on the top showed the LEAST amount of bumpsteer but not 0*. I suppose its possible there are other tie rod combinations that could affect bumpsteer and would be curious to see someone else post alignment numbers showing the difference. I also was not able to run a full top to bottom sweep since my car, although lowered, still had the springs in. I did had a 250 lb co-worker hang on the bumper to get as close as possible. At any rate, alignment racks dont lie and the bumpsteer numbers were horrifically bad w/ spacers on the bottom and 'flat tie rods' as you say.
                        You say "Where are your other two cylinders?"
                        I say "Where's your other camshaft?"
                        Frankenmotor: if an M42, M44, M20, S50, and S52 were to have a kid.

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                          #27
                          Sorry to revive this, but has anyone found a way to fully eliminate bumpsteer with an E36 rack? I'm looking into the Z3 rack swap, but would prefer to not have any bumpsteer whatsoever. BMWs are not, to my knowledge, supposed to have issues like this.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Anzi View Post
                            Sorry to revive this, but has anyone found a way to fully eliminate bumpsteer with an E36 rack? I'm looking into the Z3 rack swap, but would prefer to not have any bumpsteer whatsoever. BMWs are not, to my knowledge, supposed to have issues like this.
                            Haven't found a way to eliminate it but you're installing a steering rack from a different car in so its not going to be 100% perfect IMO

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Brian7 View Post
                              Haven't found a way to eliminate it but you're installing a steering rack from a different car in so its not going to be 100% perfect IMO
                              My thinking here is that since apparently the closer to the ground the rack is, would it be remotely possible to put in spacers of a bit more thickness (maybe a quarter inch to name a random number) and have that bolt together, or will that ruin the tabs that are being bent?

                              That said, I currently haven't got a BMW to try this on, and am doing my research before buying a car, so that I have a game plan of sorts.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by benz-tech View Post
                                My car is at -1.5* in the front and -2.0* in the rear.
                                Also, might this change how the spacers should be set up? My understanding is that factory height cars should have -.069* camber at the front, and of course lowering changes suspension geometry, which, to my knowledge, can have an effect on this issue.

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