KONI vs BILSTEIN

[Northern]

Billy sports should be pretty well valved to h&r race/ie 3's as they come.

[woc]

I just bought and installed Billis on IE stage 3, with 25mmF/22mmR sways, and I'm not sure if IE re-valve their shocks to match their stage 3 springs, but the car rides stiff as hell, and I love it (no homo). I think I need to call IE and see if they re-valved my shocks, cause I bought it as a combo with sways. If in case they weren't revalved, where can I take'em to to be revalved to match my springs?

[Varinn]

With all the experts chiming in here, I want to add a little more to this to try and get a better understanding of the general concensus. How do you strike the balance between stiffer springs/shocks, swaybars, etc. For example, on a DD/autocross car with H&R sports and wanting to combat bodyroll do you upgrade to race level springs or install larger swaybars? If stabilizers, how big? 22/19? 21/14? 25/22? Do the types of shocks help to control over/understeer or is this handled more by the springs and sways? Street cars have obviously different requirements than autocross, which has different requirements from track cars.

I see that the popular choice with the experienced techs/track guys is that Koni is a better shock than the Bilstein for either reliability or smooth action. The tradeoff being that for someone who isn't comfortable, or is TOO comfortable adjusting their own dampers can actually make things worse than the Bilsteins.

[jlevie]

Konis will not last forever. no way.

no such thing as lifetime. you can compensate for some wear but they will blow out eventually. by 100k mine were completely toast.

The longest I've run a set of Koni SA's, on a car with OE springs, has been 150k. The adjustments still weren't maxed out and the shocks weren't leaking. I call that pretty close to lifetime, but the car was totaled while it was parked by a hit-n-run driver. The greatest mileage I've gotten from OE shocks has been 50k and the greatest from Bilsteins has been no more than 70k. And this is on pretty good roads. But the life of those will be a function of the springs used and the initial adjustment.

On my Spec E30, Bilstein Sports are pretty far gone after two years. That isn't much mileage and tracks are generally very smooth.

[DRTSRFR]

True.

I believe both have their place, it's very subjective. I deal with both platforms on different set-ups all over the world, my consensus is vague at best.

Ultimately, especially in the enthusiast world, it's different strokes...the area, uses, and user all come into play. I prefer an adjustable damper, but I'm a suspension tweaker. I'm constantly making changes to my liking. Sometimes for no reason than to entertain my curiosity, sometimes to better answer questions... sometimes, just because I have nothing better to do than turn knobs while I'm driving myself to the ends of nowhere on a sunny Saturday.

One thing I have found with Konis is many have no idea how to use the adjustment to their benefit. I constantly hear,"I turned them all the way firm and the car got bouncier." or, "I'm only turning the knob a quarter of a turn".

Both scenarios shout TROUBLE. Turning the knob to full stiff, with most street springs will, as JLevie said, ratchet the damper right down onto the bumpstop and render the suspension lifeless.

Most don't realize that a quarter turn on a Koni is a BIG change. When I speak to first time, or frustrated users, I tell them to make adjustments and visualize the face of a clock. Only make changes in "5 minute" increments. This usually yields much better results, and gives you a reference point so you can start over if necessary.

[nando]

both have lifetime warranties :)

[DRTSRFR]

Lifetime warranty though :D

[nando]

Konis will not last forever. no way.

no such thing as lifetime. you can compensate for some wear but they will blow out eventually. by 100k mine were completely toast.

[jlevie]

So I can use Konis SA with stock springs? Or would be a waste of money.

You can, and that is what I have on my "restoration project" car. The car is an 87 325is (03 build) that I have been restoring to like factory new condition. I have my Koni's set for 1/2 turn from full soft and the handling is, for the springs, about as good as you can get, regardless of how rough the surface is. I find the Koni's yield a better, less harsh, ride than Bilsteins and a better handling on rough surfaces than OE type Sachs/Boge shocks.

For all practical purposes the Koni's will be lifetime shocks as I can compensate for wear. So I would not consider them to be a waste of money.

[Cabriolet]

waste of money.

[jan318]

So I can use Konis SA with stock springs? Or would be a waste of money.

[LJ851]

I probably could have stated the idea better by stating that you use spring rates to control stiffness and shocks to control the springs.

I agree 100% with this statement.

[jlevie]

Rebound damping changes do affect compression damping , but on a much smaller scale.

That may be and it probably depends on what adjustable shock you use. But we are talking about Koni SA shocks here and I haven't seen that affect.

I have to completely disagree here. On an adjustable shock you can effectively render the suspension static except for low speed movement. The stiffness feel of an overdamped suspension is as bad or worse than an oversprung one.

Well of course, if you can crank the damping up high enough you'll lock the springs. In a sense that is stiffer, but you've removed the compliance from the suspension and will have severe contact patch problems. I probably could have stated the idea better by stating that you use spring rates to control stiffness and shocks to control the springs.

[Holland]

Personally I like dailying on HR sport springs and koni SA with GC camber plates. I had HR race, but im not a fan of getting beat to death on my commute. I've heard over and over that revlaved bilsteins are the best but for the price it's hard to justify them. however, stock bilsteins sports are way too soft for a spring stiffer than an HR sport. some local guys have blown several of them on HR race spring/coilover. and i think most of us would agree koni NA are just crap. but best bang for the buck is koni SAs. you pretty much adjust them as jim posted and it's a great ride for autoX and DD.

I'm on my second set of Bilstein sports on the rear of my car, as I am running race springs as well. Bilsteins are OK, but there are definitely better options out there.

[Earendil]

I would try Koni's, perhaps re-valved. Having Bilstein Sport shocks rebuilt every other year is a nuisance. But then I'm taking a race car where every bit matters.

I didn't say that I didn't like the H&R Race springs, only that if not constrained by class rules I'd use a much stiffer spring for better control of the car and more predictable handling. H&R Race springs, Bilstein Sport shocks, and 22/19mm sways (the Bimmerworld sways are the best) is a good, inexpensive combination. But you can do better.

Thanks a bunch for the information! I'm currently sitting on H&R Sports and billy sports. The shocks could possibly need a rebuild anyway, so if I swap up to H&R Race I could have them re-valved to match the Race. Sounds like the Bilstein sports even with a re-valve would not be a good match for the J-Stock? At least it seems most people don't run them together.

Budget is such that I look at "go fast" parts and the price equates to track days for me. Switching to Koni's? That'll cost two track days. Having the bilsteins revalved? That'll only cost a single track day! It's a weird economic world to live in.