KONI vs BILSTEIN

[jlevie]

You come so close to answering my question, but end of diverging into stating that you don't like the H&R Race Springs. Good info still, but I'm left wondering what you think of shocks. Obviously for the spec class the B-shocks are your only option. But what would you choose if tomorrow they opened up the shocks only, and left you with the H&R Race?

I would try Koni's, perhaps re-valved. Having Bilstein Sport shocks rebuilt every other year is a nuisance. But then I'm taking a race car where every bit matters.

I didn't say that I didn't like the H&R Race springs, only that if not constrained by class rules I'd use a much stiffer spring for better control of the car and more predictable handling. H&R Race springs, Bilstein Sport shocks, and 22/19mm sways (the Bimmerworld sways are the best) is a good, inexpensive combination. But you can do better.

[LJ851]

Understand that the adjustments on Koni SA shocks only affect rebound damping.

Rebound damping changes do affect compression damping , but on a much smaller scale.

A shock has a negligible contribution to stiffness as compared to the springs. to get a firmer, stiffer ride, you increase the spring rates. Then set up the shocks for those rates.

I have to completely disagree here. On an adjustable shock you can effectively render the suspension static except for low speed movement. The stiffness feel of an overdamped suspension is as bad or worse than an oversprung one.

[Cabriolet]

Personally I like dailying on HR sport springs and koni SA with GC camber plates. I had HR race, but im not a fan of getting beat to death on my commute. I've heard over and over that revlaved bilsteins are the best but for the price it's hard to justify them. however, stock bilsteins sports are way too soft for a spring stiffer than an HR sport. some local guys have blown several of them on HR race spring/coilover. and i think most of us would agree koni NA are just crap. but best bang for the buck is koni SAs. you pretty much adjust them as jim posted and it's a great ride for autoX and DD.

[Earendil]

In my opinion...

DD with stock springs -> Koni's initially set at most .5 turns from full soft
DD with H&R Sports -> Koni's initially set at most 1.5 turns from full soft
A track car with H&R Race -> H&R springs are really too soft for a track/race car. I have them on my Spec E30, because that what the class rules require.

You come so close to answering my question, but end of diverging into stating that you don't like the H&R Race Springs. Good info still, but I'm left wondering what you think of shocks. Obviously for the spec class the B-shocks are your only option. But what would you choose if tomorrow they opened up the shocks only, and left you with the H&R Race?

[mccor023]

I'm running Billy Sports w/ Vogtland purple springs (clueless to type or rate).
I love my height, and smooth cruising at speed, but any city driving with small to medium road imperfections or potholes rattle and bang my car. All other suspension parts have been refreshed.
And thats All I have to offer this thread.

[nando]

A shock has a negligible contribution to stiffness as compared to the springs. to get a firmer, stiffer ride, you increase the spring rates. Then set up the shocks for those rates.

theoretically, yes. but the bilsteins made my suspension feel at least twice as stiff as the konis.

the bilsteins were significantly cheaper than equivalent Konis though.

[jlevie]

Im seeing some shock theory here, but little application theory.
What (in everyone's own option) would be the best shock for:
A DD with stock springs?
A DD with H&R Sports?
A track car with H&R Race?

Personally I'm more interested in that last question, but I have a feeling most of the board is interested in the first two.
Thanks :)

In my opinion...

DD with stock springs -> Koni's initially set at most .5 turns from full soft
DD with H&R Sports -> Koni's initially set at most 1.5 turns from full soft
A track car with H&R Race -> H&R springs are really too soft for a track/race car. I have them on my Spec E30, because that what the class rules require. But car's handling would be far better with 150-200% higher spring rates. The cheaper option would be Turner J-Stock and re-valved Bilstein Sports (roughly twice the rates of H&R Race). The better option would be GC coil overs set up with springs in that range and the shocks that GC recommends. The ultimate would coil overs and DA shocks with external reservoirs.

Understand that the adjustments on Koni SA shocks only affect rebound damping. . In general you want enough rebound damping so that the suspension doesn't oscillate (bounce) but not so much that the suspension can't follow the road's surface. The nice thing about Koni's is that the adjustment allow for wear compensation.

A shock has a negligible contribution to stiffness as compared to the springs. to get a firmer, stiffer ride, you increase the spring rates. Then set up the shocks for those rates.

[nando]

I think for street use, the Konis will ride better. I believe Bilsteins are better performing, especially if revalved, but they'll also be stiff as fuck.

[yeaseth]

I love my Koni top adjustable shocks with my GC setup :)

[acolella76]

Koni makes a great shock, and I would prefer them 9 times out of 10 over Bilstein. However since we are talking about something you can buy over the shelf, I would pick Bilstein.

[LJ851]

I'm running H&R race with koni SA on my DD (full height struts)

The spring rate is firm, however i am not that pleased with the compression damping of the konis. It is not up to keeping the front struts off the bump stops. This is in low speed compression and large high speed movements. They just are not matched to the spring rate very well.

I have tried several different rebound settings to try to improve the situation.

[DRTSRFR]

I'm not saying that its the inverted design that changes the dampening. I'm saying as a fact that Bilstein shocks dampen on the compression stroke while Koni's dampen durring rebound.

Sorry, but this is just plain untrue.

[Earendil]

Im seeing some shock theory here, but little application theory.
What (in everyone's own option) would be the best shock for:
A DD with stock springs?
A DD with H&R Sports?
A track car with H&R Race?

Personally I'm more interested in that last question, but I have a feeling most of the board is interested in the first two.
Thanks :)

[ELVA164]

Personally, I've installed Konis on the front and rear of my '87 and I think they're awesome. The car is stiff enough to remove body roll and feel much more planted, but not so stiff as to make it uncomfortable for passengers who don't care about cornering g's. Also, I appreciate the adjustability of both the fronts and rears, and having to adjust the rears from the bottom really isn't a big deal at all. I adjusted each pair twice I think before I got them right where I liked them best.

Also, my car is a DD and I enjoy it just as much on a long highway trip as I do on side roads.

[bigdrick323]

So what are we going with here and are there other options? I'm just looking for DD ability.