KONI vs BILSTEIN

[PaintPro21]

Do not agree with you PaintPro21. Nothing depends in damping because of inverted or traditional shock. Bilstein adds 1% to spring ratio or even less because of nitrogen pressure. Bilstein has two seals and to damage it is not so easy.

I'm not saying that its the inverted design that changes the dampening. I'm saying as a fact that Bilstein shocks dampen on the compression stroke while Koni's dampen durring rebound.

My gripe with Bilsteins being inverted is the problems they cause as they wear. A koni shock will have visible seapage when it has a problem because the oil will come out around the seal. A bilstein will fail the very same way, BUT you will not see it because it is incased in a second body. Add to this the fact that it is inverted, which means the oil will flow downward and collect. The bump stop is internal on the Bilstein (you can add what bump stop you want on a koni), and this bump stop will become soaked over time and completely change its dampening rate vs a dry one.

I work for a Distributor (not just a retailer) of aftermarket suspension components. so I'm not just speaking from my own experience. I'm talking about what I know and see from selling thousands of koni, tokico, bilstein, kyb shocks... Our Koni sales for performance appilcations hands down kills that of other shocks, which includes specialty use and custom valving.

[romkasponka]

I'm not saying that its the inverted design that changes the dampening. I'm saying as a fact that Bilstein shocks dampen on the compression stroke while Koni's dampen durring rebound.

All shocks have bigger dampening force during rebound or even to bump but not less. Or I cant understand what do you want to say?

Add to this the fact that it is inverted, which means the oil will flow downward and collect. The bump stop is internal on the Bilstein (you can add what bump stop you want on a koni), and this bump stop will become soaked over time and completely change its dampening rate vs a dry one.

You can replace bump stop if you want, it is not so dificult. How often you hit bump stop, twice in a year? :)

I work for a Distributor (not just a retailer) of aftermarket suspension components. so I'm not just speaking from my own experience. I'm talking about what I know and see from selling thousands of koni, tokico, bilstein, kyb shocks... Our Koni sales for performance appilcations hands down kills that of other shocks, which includes specialty use and custom valving.[/quote]

Adjustability of course is very handy, but you wont get that you nead for race, with adjustability what koni sport have. I bought bilstein M3 dampers (perfectly fits 51 mm struts, travel about 100mm) with race valving 300/300 front and 200/200 rear.

[errol]

which is the shorter of the 2 shocks in question? do they both offer the same amount of travel?

i know on older vw's (mk2 mk3) the bilstein sport is considerably shorter than stock. i am assuming this is the same for our application?

[Mystikal]

which is the shorter of the 2 shocks in question? do they both offer the same amount of travel?

i know on older vw's (mk2 mk3) the bilstein sport is considerably shorter than stock. i am assuming this is the same for our application?

Bilstein Sports have very little travel on E30s.

I have covered this topic in detail many times over the past 4 years. Search people.

Jay

[bigdrick323]

So what are we going with here and are there other options? I'm just looking for DD ability.

[ELVA164]

Personally, I've installed Konis on the front and rear of my '87 and I think they're awesome. The car is stiff enough to remove body roll and feel much more planted, but not so stiff as to make it uncomfortable for passengers who don't care about cornering g's. Also, I appreciate the adjustability of both the fronts and rears, and having to adjust the rears from the bottom really isn't a big deal at all. I adjusted each pair twice I think before I got them right where I liked them best.

Also, my car is a DD and I enjoy it just as much on a long highway trip as I do on side roads.

[Earendil]

Im seeing some shock theory here, but little application theory.
What (in everyone's own option) would be the best shock for:
A DD with stock springs?
A DD with H&R Sports?
A track car with H&R Race?

Personally I'm more interested in that last question, but I have a feeling most of the board is interested in the first two.
Thanks :)

[DRTSRFR]

I'm not saying that its the inverted design that changes the dampening. I'm saying as a fact that Bilstein shocks dampen on the compression stroke while Koni's dampen durring rebound.

Sorry, but this is just plain untrue.

[LJ851]

I'm running H&R race with koni SA on my DD (full height struts)

The spring rate is firm, however i am not that pleased with the compression damping of the konis. It is not up to keeping the front struts off the bump stops. This is in low speed compression and large high speed movements. They just are not matched to the spring rate very well.

I have tried several different rebound settings to try to improve the situation.

[acolella76]

Koni makes a great shock, and I would prefer them 9 times out of 10 over Bilstein. However since we are talking about something you can buy over the shelf, I would pick Bilstein.

[yeaseth]

I love my Koni top adjustable shocks with my GC setup :)

[nando]

I think for street use, the Konis will ride better. I believe Bilsteins are better performing, especially if revalved, but they'll also be stiff as fuck.

[jlevie]

Im seeing some shock theory here, but little application theory.
What (in everyone's own option) would be the best shock for:
A DD with stock springs?
A DD with H&R Sports?
A track car with H&R Race?

Personally I'm more interested in that last question, but I have a feeling most of the board is interested in the first two.
Thanks :)

In my opinion...

DD with stock springs -> Koni's initially set at most .5 turns from full soft
DD with H&R Sports -> Koni's initially set at most 1.5 turns from full soft
A track car with H&R Race -> H&R springs are really too soft for a track/race car. I have them on my Spec E30, because that what the class rules require. But car's handling would be far better with 150-200% higher spring rates. The cheaper option would be Turner J-Stock and re-valved Bilstein Sports (roughly twice the rates of H&R Race). The better option would be GC coil overs set up with springs in that range and the shocks that GC recommends. The ultimate would coil overs and DA shocks with external reservoirs.

Understand that the adjustments on Koni SA shocks only affect rebound damping. . In general you want enough rebound damping so that the suspension doesn't oscillate (bounce) but not so much that the suspension can't follow the road's surface. The nice thing about Koni's is that the adjustment allow for wear compensation.

A shock has a negligible contribution to stiffness as compared to the springs. to get a firmer, stiffer ride, you increase the spring rates. Then set up the shocks for those rates.

[nando]

A shock has a negligible contribution to stiffness as compared to the springs. to get a firmer, stiffer ride, you increase the spring rates. Then set up the shocks for those rates.

theoretically, yes. but the bilsteins made my suspension feel at least twice as stiff as the konis.

the bilsteins were significantly cheaper than equivalent Konis though.

[mccor023]

I'm running Billy Sports w/ Vogtland purple springs (clueless to type or rate).
I love my height, and smooth cruising at speed, but any city driving with small to medium road imperfections or potholes rattle and bang my car. All other suspension parts have been refreshed.
And thats All I have to offer this thread.