BMW considers diesel engine for M series

[tjts1]

No Z4M because it's basically reworking the car to be exactly like an e92 m3 vert, thus cannabalizing sales. Bad idea.

Thats funny because the Z3M roadster didn't cannibalize sales from the E36 M3 vert. Why suddenly so worried?

[Alkasquawlik]

Thats funny because the Z3M roadster didn't cannibalize sales from the E36 M3 vert. Why suddenly so worried?

Do you have proof of that?
I'm sure it did somewhat

[Hallen]

Well, race series like the ALMS is now pushing hard at alternative fuel cars. The Audi diesels were the first successful cars. There are several diesel Rabbits out there racing in different leagues. So, it doesn't really surprise me that BMW is looking at M diesels. I don't think its a bad thing and could lead to some very interesting developments.

I still like gas powered race cars, but a performance diesel could be cool.

The Z4 is heavy for a roadster, maybe that's what they meant. It's a relative thing. Compare a Z4 to a Miata, there ya go.

[euroshark]

Tractor trailers have insane diesel torque. It doesn't make them fun to drive.

Big torque is the idea behind the E30 M30 swap and they are tons of fun.

[bmwguy87]

I have driven both 335i and 335d the diesal does have a lot of torque but I have to agree when I say the 335i is a hell of a lot more fun especially when you add a pigtail to it.

[paulkeith]

I'd say the R10 pretty much proves the viability of a diesel mill in a sports car. You can produce more power per unit displacement and get a more efficient engine to boot. Not to mention a table-flat torque curve if tuned right.

As has been mentioned, if you've never driven a diesel truck, 300hp/600ftlbs, you don't know what you're talking about. Put that kind of power in a chassis designed for twisties plus the rest of the standard ///M treatment and you're looking at one kick.ass. platform that should pull the skin off your face.

[tjts1]

Big torque is the idea behind the E30 M30 swap and they are tons of fun in a straight line.

Fixed for accuracy.

Can u imagine an M car with a 4500rpm redline? :down:

[Charlie]

I'd say the R10 pretty much proves the viability of a diesel mill in a sports car.

Really?

You mean the LMP1 car that got spanked repeatedly by the smaller bore and heavily restricted slower-class P2 porsches for 2 years in a row? The ACO had to severely restrict the gas powered LMP cars to get the diesel cars overall wins, I certainly wouldn't list is as a "viable" exercise.

-Charlie

[TDE30]

^ Not to mention it's reliability; it certainly was a moldbreaker, but I'd hardly use it to back up diesels as a whole.

[Hallen]

Really?

You mean the LMP1 car that got spanked repeatedly by the smaller bore and heavily restricted slower-class P2 porsches for 2 years in a row? The ACO had to severely restrict the gas powered LMP cars to get the diesel cars overall wins, I certainly wouldn't list is as a "viable" exercise.

-Charlie

The diesel R10's did have to deal with a heavy car, but the P2 wins had much more to do with the weight limits in the rules and the power available. Porsche took advantage of that with the Spyder. The petrol powered P1 cars weren't restricted, if I recall correctly. But the diesel cars were certainly given a lot more latitude. The end result was the same though; the petrol cars were woefully outmatched due to the rules.

The diesel does cause problems in that it was a heavier lump and that made weight distribution on the R10 more difficult. I know that the R8's were considerably more nimble than the R10 for that reason. (there were other problems too like transmissions and traction control)

But no P2 car could possibly touch the R10 or the Peugeot at Le Mans. No way.

The end result is that the diesels did well enough. It would have been much more interesting if the petrol cars were allowed to be competitive. But you couldn't call the R10, R15, or Peugeot anything else but an overall success. That's not necessarily from the perspective of race wins. It's from the perspective of using a diesel in a competitve race car.

[Charlie]

The diesel R10's did have to deal with a heavy car, but the P2 wins had much more to do with the weight limits in the rules and the power available. Porsche took advantage of that with the Spyder. The petrol powered P1 cars weren't restricted, if I recall correctly. But the diesel cars were certainly given a lot more latitude. The end result was the same though; the petrol cars were woefully outmatched due to the rules.

The diesel does cause problems in that it was a heavier lump and that made weight distribution on the R10 more difficult. I know that the R8's were considerably more nimble than the R10 for that reason. (there were other problems too like transmissions and traction control)

But no P2 car could possibly touch the R10 or the Peugeot at Le Mans. No way.

The end result is that the diesels did well enough. It would have been much more interesting if the petrol cars were allowed to be competitive. But you couldn't call the R10, R15, or Peugeot anything else but an overall success. That's not necessarily from the perspective of race wins. It's from the perspective of using a diesel in a competitve race car.

The gas powered P1 cars are pretty heavily restricted by the ACO rules. Basically they're rendered uncompetitive.

-Charlie

[euroshark]

Fixed for accuracy.

I take it you've never driven one then... See the M30 section to clear up all of the misconceptions you obviously have about this swap.

[tjts1]

It sounds like BMW's current diesel models are selling like hot cakes.

BMW is offering the $4,500 in rebates on the X5 35d and 335d as an "Eco Credit" to supplement Cash for Clunkers. BMW points out that on top of the up to $4,500 in incentives, buyers of the Bavarian diesels are also eligible for tax credits of $900 for the 335d and $1,800 for the X5 35d. And since the oil-burners are so efficient, BMW estimates fuel savings over four years at $2,000 verses comparable petrol-powered luxury rides.

The program, which runs through August 31, is being advertised as a one-time special offer, but it could also signal a lack of acceptance for diesel-powered luxury vehicles in the U.S. That would be too bad, though, because the diesel Bimmers we've driven were flat-out terrific, and with 580 miles/tank and a 20 percent reduction in CO2, they're eco-friendly, too.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/07/23/bmw-throws-big-cash-on-the-hoods-of-its-u-s-diesel-offerings/#continued

LOL

[paulkeith]

Really?

You mean the LMP1 car that got spanked repeatedly by the smaller bore and heavily restricted slower-class P2 porsches for 2 years in a row? The ACO had to severely restrict the gas powered LMP cars to get the diesel cars overall wins, I certainly wouldn't list is as a "viable" exercise.

-Charlie

Yes, really. Maybe you should look up the definition of "viable." I wasn't saying the concept is perfected and resulted in dominant wins regardless of politics and regulations of ALMS, but that it has some merit to it, at least to the point where its worthy of looking into further and trickling the technology into production sportscars....which seems to be the exact sentiment of BMW in that article.

Those of you who continue to bash diesels should go drive diesels that have been tuned for performance. Comparing a chipped 335i to a stock 335d is apples to oranges. Almost every factory produced diesel is massively detuned. Go find a buddy with a 1000ftlb cummins diesel with a auto tranny....you'll quickly forget the thing weighs 7klbs. A little massaging of weight balance with a heavier diesel powerplant and I still maintain that a pretty damn cool sportscar could be created.

:up:

[bimmer_E30]

Fail.