Once upon a time there were 2 e30 drivers with fast cars and

[oh2fly]

they each wanted to know whose ride was faster. One of them was a bronzit Euro 325i with an m50. The other was a stroked Lachsilber 325is with an m20 fresh from the dyno shop with numbers that were impressive. So, they got together and found a lonely stretch of country road and lined up. Off they went from a rolling start , up through the gears and guess what? NO WINNER! They were dead even. So, they tried it again from a standing start. Same results, a dead heat. So, both cars are equal even though they took decidedly different paths to make some good e30 power. Names and addresses left out to protect the guilty. :twisted:

[Jordan]

Ha. Except one has much quicker gearing then the other, and the set ending speed was reached with one car in front of the other ;)

[Digitalwave]

AWEESOME I BETS E30S MAKE SICK DRAG CARS WUT DO THOS RUN LIKE 16"S^#?

[Bimmerfanatik]

Ha. Except one has much quicker gearing then the other, and the set ending speed was reached with one car in front of the other ;)

Haha, I was just gonna ask, what were the two different gear ratios in the cars to make that happen?

[oh2fly]

the m50 powered car had a 1:1 e36 5 speed and 4.10. The stroker had a normal m20 5 speed and 3:73

[Mot]

street racing is bad. :P

[Jordan]

street racing is bad. :P

Only when you are drunk and or high and slam into a telephone pole.

[C ///M]

e36 5 speed and a 4.10...that's retarded... I mean really retarded...

You can't even use the m50's broad power band. If you bothered with the swap, why use a rear end that won't even let you use the engine you put in the car?

Plus, you probably spent as much time shifting as you did acceleration.. :down:

P.S. Street racing is for morons.

[uofom3]

e36 5 speed and a 4.10...that's retarded... I mean really retarded...

You can't even use the m50's broad power band. If you bothered with the swap, why use a rear end that won't even let you use the engine you put in the car?

Plus, you probably spent as much time shifting as you did acceleration.. :down:

P.S. Street racing is for morons.

i'm not going to shit on this thread - but thats lame. The "broad power band" does not need to be used. So now the car only does 130 something instead of a possibly 150 or whatever - but it gets to 130 in a hurry. If you were on a track, there aren't a lot of straights where an e30 is going to have the room to stretch out to 150 and still get hauled down to make the corner. Because of the increased accelerationthat can be gained from the different gears - the 20mph top speed on the straights lost is negated by the power out of corners. There is are several instances - i believe most notably at the nurburgring, where e30 m3 dtm cars ran shorter gear ratios and ran the cars off the limter in 6th on certain parts of the track. They lost top speed, but improved lap times by having greater acceleration. a 3.73 or 3.23 is great for cruising on the highway, but it is not optimal for auto cross or track days unless your gearbox is
seriously close ratio.

[C ///M]

i'm not going to shit on this thread - but thats lame. The "broad power band" does not need to be used. So now the car only does 130 something instead of a possibly 150 or whatever - but it gets to 130 in a hurry. If you were on a track, there aren't a lot of straights where an e30 is going to have the room to stretch out to 150 and still get hauled down to make the corner. Because of the increased excelleration that can be gained from the different gears - the 20mph top speed on the straights lost is negated by the power out of corners. There is are several instances - i believe most notably at the nurburgring, where e30 m3 dtm cars ran shorter gear ratios and ran the cars off the limter in 6th on certain parts of the track. They lost top speed, but improved lap times by having greater exceleration. a 3.73 or 3.23 is great for cruising on the highway, but it is not optimal for auto cross or track days unless your gearbox is
seriously close ratio.

My opinion. Any acceleration gain from the diff ratio is LOST with the amount of time taken switching gears. I didn't even mention top speed at all.

Next, if i were you, I really would not use a comparison with the DTM E30 M3, it has got to be one of the worst comparisons for this particular scenario/small discussion. First, they had short ratio gear boxes and still ran well under the stock m3's 4.10 rear end. Not to mention the powerplant was ridiculous different than a stock 2.5 m50.

I use the "power band example" because it's been beaten to death by the e36 people. No offense intended, but honestly, you really don't have any experience, technical experience with e36 engines/trannies, do you? (serious question). a 4.10 on an e36 6 cylinder drivetrain is NOT an upgrade. However, it may be useful for particular auto-x's.

P.S. Street racing is still for morons.

[uofom3]

i'm not going to shit on this thread - but thats lame. The "broad power band" does not need to be used. So now the car only does 130 something instead of a possibly 150 or whatever - but it gets to 130 in a hurry. If you were on a track, there aren't a lot of straights where an e30 is going to have the room to stretch out to 150 and still get hauled down to make the corner. Because of the increased excelleration that can be gained from the different gears - the 20mph top speed on the straights lost is negated by the power out of corners. There is are several instances - i believe most notably at the nurburgring, where e30 m3 dtm cars ran shorter gear ratios and ran the cars off the limter in 6th on certain parts of the track. They lost top speed, but improved lap times by having greater exceleration. a 3.73 or 3.23 is great for cruising on the highway, but it is not optimal for auto cross or track days unless your gearbox is
seriously close ratio.

My opinion. Any acceleration gain from the diff ratio is LOST with the amount of time taken switching gears. I didn't even mention top speed at all.

Next, if i were you, I really would not use a comparison with the DTM E30 M3, it has got to be one of the worst comparisons for this particular scenario/small discussion. First, they had short ratio gear boxes and still ran well under the stock m3's 4.10 rear end. Not to mention the powerplant was ridiculous different than a stock 2.5 m50.

I use the "power band example" because it's been beaten to death by the e36 people. No offense intended, but honestly, you really don't have any experience, technical experience with e36 engines/trannies, do you? (serious question). a 4.10 on an e36 6 cylinder drivetrain is NOT an upgrade. However, it may be useful for particular auto-x's.

P.S. Street racing is still for morons.

I'm not saying you're full of shit or wrong - i am saying that this application WORKS in the car its put in - there are victories on track/auto-x to prove it - not street racing bull-shit-bar-talk stories.

Secondly - yes I do have experience with these setups - i own a 95 m3 that has the s50 motor and the tranny that accompanies it - i personally would rather have a slightly shorter rear end in the car - though not greatly as then it would not be able to stretch its legs as you are saying (maybe i just need more horsepower...). I've also driven a 525 with the dualvanos m50 motor regularly. I am not saying that I would like to see the e36 have a setup that is closer to the e30 m3 setup with the 4:11 and a gearbox that isn't as close ratio - but then we could get into the discussion as to why BMW did that with the e30 (4 cylinder, high power band, low torque, ect. ect.).

What you have to understand about the car in question here is that the owners of the car own a lot of diff's, and have the capability to run whatever they want, whenever they want. I am confident that if it was not working for them, they would adjust things about it. They are extremely knowledgeable about e30's, and racing their cars. With this setup, they have had more success on track/auto-x and i know these guys experiment to the point of achieving the setup that works best for their cars. you've got a valid point that is substantiated, and this car to my knowledge is primarily for auto-x so its a mute point, but even on the track they are very competitive with cars you wouldn't expect them to really be that close to.

[C ///M]

So what you're saying is that we agree then. We are both familiar with this specific setup's ups and downs.

However, you're out of context here (however right). Remember, this thread is about 2 people doing a straight line drag race (on a street no less.. :roll: ), not on a track or auto-x course. Therefore, I limited my discussion to straight line acceleration only.

It does not concern me whether the owner has 500 diffs they can swap in or out depending on application. Bottomline, running a drag race with an m50 and tranny and a 4.10 diff is stupid. With your added info, if I had to guess it happened to be what was in the car at that time and why bother swap it for a stupid drag race with a friend.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, your '95 has a 3.15 in it...can you imagine throwing in a 4.10 and heading out to do a drag race? Your overall acceleration through gears would suffer, and you know it.

[uofom3]

So what you're saying is that we agree then. We are both familiar with this specific setup's ups and downs.

However, you're out of context here (however right). Remember, this thread is about 2 people doing a straight line drag race (on a street no less.. :roll: ), not on a track or auto-x course. Therefore, I limited my discussion to straight line acceleration only.

It does not concern me whether the owner has 500 diffs they can swap in or out depending on application. Bottomline, running a drag race with an m50 and tranny and a 4.10 diff is stupid. With your added info, if I had to guess it happened to be what was in the car at that time and why bother swap it for a stupid drag race with a friend.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, your '95 has a 3.15 in it...can you imagine throwing in a 4.10 and heading out to do a drag race? Your overall acceleration through gears would suffer, and you know it.

yeah if you're talking about straight drag racing - you're right. From the initial post- it seemed as though you were generalizing that ratio as being bad. Your guess about the drag racing is corret.
I'm agreeing in general to what you're saying - it apparently is a mis-understanding. However, for what its used for, it works quite well. I'd be interesting to see how it would be if they ran again with a different gear ratio.

[Mot]

street racing is bad. :P

Only when you are drunk and or high and slam into a telephone pole.

it was a tree, i was sober and wasnt street racing. :evil: :P

[Jordan]

I love how you Chris... state that street racing is for morons.

I think anyone that spends $50 and half a day to an ultimate goal of spending 15 seconds racing a civic down a quarter mile a moron.

Evan and I wanted to see how 2 cars with very different routes to power stacked up against each other. We did.

It was a long, desolate back stretch of road. No one to be hurt except our selves, and in undertaking the act we both assume the risks full knowing.

Get off your high and mighty fucking horse. No one cares about your opinion on this matter. It was only posted in the first place to highlight the different methods that can come out the same. I challenge you to find a single person that has never gunned off a stop light, or played cat and mouse on the highway... and I will have (with your assistance) found a liar. Or someone that drives a shitbrick of a car.

Further such opinions voiced on this and related maters will result in a termination of membership. Thats right, I will ban you.