95 M3

[Charlie]

It is also OBD1, which is ultimately less costly than the obd2 equipped cars.

Okay, I gotta ask, how do you figure? Save for an extra O2 sensor, I don't see where the costs are.

I have never understood where people come off with OBDII being so awful and impossible to deal with. If anything, I find being able to use a universal reader to scan codes to be extremely convienient. If anything, it allows you to pinpoint the issue a lot quicker than an OBDI car, and eliminates some trial and error parts swapping.

I've never understood the "OBDII is hard to mod" internet BS either. Any serious motor mod (IE: Cams, headwork, etc) is going to require a reprogramming of the ECU to fully utilize the changes. This is no different with OBDII or OBDI. The dum-dum mods like air filter and exhaust which don't really do anything anyway don't make a difference with the engine management systems.

-Charlie

[Charlie]

If your budget is $5K-$12K look at E36 325is and E36 328is. Not quite the performance of the ///M variants, but not exactly slouches either. Huge aftermarket potential with either of these.....much more so than the E30s. Lastly, a non-///M car will be cheaper to insure (if that is a concern to you).

For the budget you have in mind, you can get a very nice example if you're patient and wait for a good deal on something you like.

Jon

I agree with this. 10-12k can find you a cherry '99 328is. Toss some aftermarket suspension bits in there, and you're pretty close to an e36 M3 in that regard.

-Charlie

[rwh11385]

Charlie with the Maybach like rant on BMW tuning, or lack therefore.

Most people I hear complaining about OBDI are people wanting the gains to be better with an intake, exhaust, etc etc. So your point goes right along with that.

And the "costs" may be in converting to OBDI to realize gains, or whatever. But isn't most of that just the change in manifold? (blind guess)

[Charlie]

And the "costs" may be in converting to OBDI to realize gains, or whatever. But isn't most of that just the change in manifold? (blind guess)

To make the most of engine mods, you're going to be retuning the ECU. OBDII has been around for 10 years, it's not like shops don't know how to reflash an eprom vs reflashing a chip.

-Charlie

[uofom3]

i'm not going ot get into a pissing match over OBD1 vs. OBD2 diagnostic systems. I'm not an expert with e36 electronics, nor claim to be. I draw this reference from the cost aspect. It costs nearly 450$ just for the parts to buy o2 sensors on an OBD2 equipped car. That is nuts. Also, most parts to upgrade the OBD2 system are also more costly. If you look at most everyone who really, really upgrades s50/s52 motors, most all tuners convert to OBD1 as it is easier to work with. This becomes especially true if you want to get into forced induction ect. Also, the 3.2 liter engine only produces a few more hp than the 3.0 s50, this is largely due to the restrictiveness of the software. This is why you see people run the OBD1 with the 3.2 motor.

As far as manifolds go, i believe i've read that you want to swap in a dual-vanos m50 intake manifold to the s50 to yield some sort of hp gain, but i have not tried it.

[rwh11385]

yeah, doesn't stop ZA from selling the idea, and lots and lots of people buying into it:

http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/store/shop.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=6134&Product_Code=EOCK&Category_Code=OBDC

"Boost your horsepower 25+ with our OBDI conversion kit."

http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/showthread.php?t=94239&page=2&pp=15

hmm, i thought it added about 25hp due to the better flowing intake manifold and the different comp.

Tom

There is some power from the manifold, but you can swap it on a OBDII m3 no problem.

So save up for a nicely kepy 328is, or even late M3.

Most E36s I hate because they are so ragged, beat up, and not taken care of. One of the club member's 98 Hellrot M3 with AA exhaust and sharked is pretty fucking badass.

[bmwm3n528]

Dad has just recently fallen victim to some emissions stuff on his '96 328is, had to replace a diverter valve, catalytic converters, handful of o2s sensors along with a secondary air pump to pass emissions and not get hit with a $250 fine from NC. Add those things up and you're over a grand, and that's not even OE cats.

That's seems like reason enough to go with an OBD1 car.

[Ryan Stewart]

You dont have to ditch OBD2 to get that power, just ditch the traction control TB and the shitty manifold. You can change the intake parts and still be OBD2.

The problem with OBD2 is sensors, beyond that of the O2 sensor. It has a more complicated fuel control system that was the source of the gascap recall in 99. OBD2 monitors a lot more things so there are more sensors and systems to fail (the exhaust system is a whole different animal altogehter). Being said on a stock car there isnt a whole lot of reason to worry, for the most part the system is reliable. Its just that you often have to move, remove, and fool systems when you start modding. When we put headers and a S/C on brians car we had to do some splicing and soldering in emulators to trick the DME to think everything was hunky dory.

The reason racers and modders ditch OBD2 first is it rules out about 30% of control system failures. Although rare most cant afford to sit out a race. It was a great idea when new, because it was needed. However just like all this new wizardry on the new R6 coming out its incredible at the time but who wants to foot the bill 10 years down the road when all that shit starts breaking? K.I.S.S. says the idiot that went to OBD1 from Motronic. :?

Yeah Pasha mentioned the retainers, the biggest problem with the pre 10/95 cars. Any post 12/94 car also has EWS which CAN be a plus as long as it works properly.

The rear end part I am talking about is the actual subframe mounting points on the E36. That section of the unibody is too thin for how they mounted and it can pull out under heavy loading. The solution is to pull the rear and rear interior and sandwich in two more plates to reinforce the unibody and spread the load. With that fix I havent heard of a car failing.

[Jordan]

If your budget is $5K-$12K look at E36 325is and E36 328is. Not quite the performance of the ///M variants, but not exactly slouches either.

How do you figure Jon? The performance specs of a well kept e30 vs a e36 325i/328i is about the same. Enough so that its really a drivers race, not the cars.

I would definately go with a 330iS ;)

FWIW salvage doesn't always mean not in good shape. Find out what happened, and the extent of the damage. There might not even be any...

[nameisbradgreen]

Just ran a carfax on it, not looking good at all. I think ill pass on this keen example of... "if its too good to be true, it probably is"

on to selling my bimmer and driving the 530i around for awhile till I find a new car that I like

[Jon325i]

If your budget is $5K-$12K look at E36 325is and E36 328is. Not quite the performance of the ///M variants, but not exactly slouches either.

How do you figure Jon? The performance specs of a well kept e30 vs a e36 325i/328i is about the same. Enough so that its really a drivers race, not the cars.

I would definately go with a 330iS ;)

FWIW salvage doesn't always mean not in good shape. Find out what happened, and the extent of the damage. There might not even be any...

I mentioned that cause some mods like upgrading cams + software on a VANOS M50 gives a nice boost in HP and top end punch. Like I said....they are good performers for what they are, but not quite M status. E36 M3s are depreciating in value as time passes....but a quality example will command more than $12K. With the budget Brad mentioned you have to be realistic with what you can get for that kind of money. Non-M E36s are turning into performance bargains now and will continue to do so in the coming years.

And yes, the 330i is a nice ride. My brother's fiance' (sp?) has a 2003 model with manual trans + sport package. Pretty good straight out of the box....but having driven it a few times, I would at least give it better suspension. Too soft for my liking.

Jon

[uofom3]

jordan was making a joke about the 95 m3 being a 330is and not an m3... some believe that the ///m stood for ///marketing in those years (which it did)... true "sports cars" don't come in 4 doors, a convertable, or with a luxury package...

[Jordan]

Nothing like a M3/4 A to drive your kids to soccer with.

[nando]

jordan was making a joke about the 95 m3 being a 330is and not an m3... some believe that the ///m stood for ///marketing in those years (which it did)... true "sports cars" don't come in 4 doors, a convertable, or with a luxury package...

damn BMW for wanting to make a profit and stay in business!

[uofom3]

jordan was making a joke about the 95 m3 being a 330is and not an m3... some believe that the ///m stood for ///marketing in those years (which it did)... true "sports cars" don't come in 4 doors, a convertable, or with a luxury package...

damn BMW for wanting to make a profit and stay in business!

No shit? They didn't seem to have a problem getting rid of the previous m cars that were more of a no-frills performance car. Also - if you think the bulk of sales comes from ///m division, or bulk of profits, you're way off target. Also, is your profit ideology always good for the brand or brand image? The answer is no. There is a reason why the new m3 CSL won't make it over, and the main reason is that thought process. Its a shame.