2wd vs awd in snow

[nrubenstein]

depends on the model, and the trans type. On a lot of them, the automatics are basically FWD. the manuals get a different, 50/50 setup. My wife's car has locks on the center and rear diff like the ix, with a 50/50 split. haven't driven on ice/snow yet with the snow tires though.

the E46 AWD system isn't great either. all open diffs, with a traction control/ABS program that hits the brakes when you slip. Imagine what happens in really low grip situations..

Actually, the E46 AWD system works great in a lot of circumstances, as long as you don't expect dry performance out of it. The problem is that it'll eventually cook the brakes. BMW did a nice demonstration of how this can work well by driving one up a ramp with rollers on one side. The xi could make it, the A4 couldn't.

I had a 325xiT. It was frustrating as a hell in the dry, but great in the snow. And yes, I'm aware that Subaru has MANY different AWD setups. The cheap ones, especially with automatics kind of suck as you stated. I had a WRX at one point (and my sister has one now). They are excellent in the snow, although the weight distribution is a handicap IMHO.

And yes, ubergeek, I am aware that most other 4WD systems are half assed at best, too.

[Erik j]

[BlackSpeed66]

I had an '86 Audi 4000 quattro for a few years. Got a set of Nokian Hakka II's on it and it did pretty well in the winter months. Unfortunately the best snow tires in the world will not stop one's car from rusting to nothing :(

The e34 is my daily now. It does have the cold weather package which gets you the LSD. With the Nokian Hakka RSi's it's actually quite impressive in the lovely Cleveland winters.

That said, I'll be a Nokian customer for life. I'm sold

[AndrewBird]

That was a very informative test. I'd like to see how Audi or many other AWD cars perform.

[nando]

All it takes to do that is an awd system with two locking diffs. Which is why they dont test an audi..

[browntown]

I drive a 2010 subaru legacy over the mountain pass in the snow every week with nothing but snow tires. I fly by everyone. Good subie with snows is impressive, and I've driven plenty of awd cars. The fiance put her awd cr-v almost in the neighbors garage last year and my old awd equinox couldn't get up a muddy hill to save its life. All that said, I can't answer the question because my e30 has nothing but summer tires.

[u3b3rg33k]

I think you guys put too much faith in the LSD. It's a 25% lock-up... when it's working perfectly. Half the ones on this board with 250k miles on them are probably 10% at best.

This is part of why I know have a torsen.

[1.1.Six]

Something to consider perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAHPMUkhj5Q

[dannyyisntt]

Just get an IX and throw a good set of winters on it. I've got one and it'll go through just about anything. It's a beast in the snow.

[blefevre]

BMW did a nice demonstration of how this can work well by driving one up a ramp with rollers on one side. The xi could make it, the A4 couldn't.

Anyone have a link of this? I can't find anything.

[Cloudbase]

I have to agree with the general theme of this thread. Tires are most important. Awd def better acceleration. I've been impressed at how well my Rwd LSD E30 does in the snow. Starting out on an icy hill is sketch, but as long as you keep the speed up absolutely no prob. The chasis is so balanced that any drift is super easy to control and encourage, even at high slip angles. In the last storm I detoured down a dirt back road with 4-6" of untracked powder and managed to hit 75! The snow roaster tails were awesome!

I used to have a manual E46xiT with 18" Blizzacks mounted on Contour reps. We took it from Telluride to Denver over 3 mountain passes in a nasty storm last winter. it was bomber, even in up to 8" of unplowed snow. The DSC was off most of the time, but on steep descents it did a better job than I ever could have at keeping things tidy.

For deep blizzards I have a 97 Tacoma with BF Goodrich AT's. They are great tires for the snow, but if you loose momentum in deep snow the open diffs and agressive treat will dig deep holes quickly. I once high centered myself on an alpine snow drift in June in the Wasatch Mountians. It tool me 3 hours to build a foundation of rocks and jack the truck up on a mini rock road I had built.

[Kovs]

Agree with most - it definitely comes down to tires and driver. My Quattro is great in a straight line but transitions from understeer to oversteer less predictably than say, an iX.

Also, putting two 50 lb. bags in the trunk of my MB made a world of difference for traction and balance. And that car has an open diff.

[nrubenstein]

Anyone have a link of this? I can't find anything.

I'll admit that I can't find it, although quattro vs. xdrive will pull up some entertaining results (including a BMW X3 vs. Audi Q5 test done by BMW).

[Bimmerman325i]

I disagree 100%. The is from owning a FWD, RWD, RWD w/LSD, Winter tires, and AWD and 4WD.

If you live in a relativly flat region, sure anything is just fine and you won't notice the difference from AWD and RWD. Throw in very steep mountain hills with ice and snow AND stop signs.....it's just a different game.

But if you are ONLY worried about not getting stuck then RWD with winter tires will get you from point A to B...eventually.

I agree entirely with this.

This last weekend we had a convoy going to Winter Park from Denver (~6000 feet to top of pass, ~4000ft total elevation change from WP to Denver), in whiteout conditions. I was in my awd Subaru (open diffs ftl, but 50/50 power distribution ftw) but with studded snows. Following were two rwd e30s, a 318is with LSD and studded snows, and an LSD m52 swap without snows. Both E30s got stuck. I four wheel drifted the entire pass, up and down. Granted, the E30 guys were hooning a ton, as was I, but they did get stuck.

AWD is amazing in snow with proper tires, a competent driver, and elevation change. RWD is fine, but AWD frankly is better. I hate driving my E36 (also hated driving the LSD equipped E30) in snow unless it's just to go dick around in. I love driving the subaru in snow.

The difference between the winter traction and capabilities of RWD and AWD with snow tires on both is staggering. AWD has far better traction in cornering and acceleration, but not any better in braking. The added traction is very noticeable, and has saved my idiot self numerous times. I had to TRY to get my car to slide on the convoy, by trailbraking the crap out of each turn, sawing at the wheel, and flooring it in first gear. It took too much effort to lose traction. The E30s were far easier to break loose and slide, and I know Sam was enjoying it to no end. My point is that the difference in grip level is astonishing, and far in favor of the AWD.

I can't wait to put LSDs in my Scoob, thing will be insane.

[Bearmw]

How about an E30 with LSD, quality snows, extra weight in the back, and CHAINS? The only thing that would stop it is snow so deep that the car rides up on it and loses down force on the rear wheels.