Why did BMW do this?

[Kershaw]

Why did BMW put a 4 beater in the e30 M3?

because a rotary would have made the car handle too well.

[Roysneon]

Everyone is so, so mad. I never wanted to say it, but I wouldn't buy an M3. They're too special for the hoonery that I'd want to put it through, and for the 15-25K it would cost I could have an ungodly fast E30 that if flipped into the trees at the local track could be reshelled for a few grand. For someone looking for a classic, collectible investment car, M3 is the way to go, for me, not so much.

[FunfGan]

^ What I've always said. And usually get flamed before I can explain. In short, I see it as a fantastic piece of automotive history, but a much fast/ more reliable e30 could be built for much less.

[dinanm3atl]

^ What I've always said. And usually get flamed before I can explain. In short, I see it as a fantastic piece of automotive history, but a much fast/ more reliable e30 could be built for much less.

Right... I said that. I want to drive my car... and drive the shit out of it.

[BlackbirdM3]

^ What I've always said. And usually get flamed before I can explain. In short, I see it as a fantastic piece of automotive history, but a much fast/ more reliable e30 could be built for much less.

I'm still trying to figure out why people say the M3 is unreliable. Sure if they sit all the time they will go down hill and be grumpy. Simple solution, drive it. I just spoke with a guy who has put 150K miles on his and he said its been pretty much bullet proof. Sure, I've been dealing with issues on mine, however the previous owners never drove the car. Heck, I've had mine since December of last year and put more miles on it than the previous owner did in almost 2 years.
Oh yeah, I've been autoXing it and so far I have yet to have any BMW other than one other E30 M3 beat me and I'm still on street tires. The other E30s are several seconds behind me. Oh wait, there is a gutted 325 track car on Hoosiers that beats me, but he's in a different class. I bet if I put the same tires on my car it would be just as fast. My motor is stock, with a full interior, and very mild suspension tuning (a set of Koni sports and too soft lowering springs.) Aside from that one car that is a full track car, I'm beating all the E36s, E46s, and E92s that have been running. Some are on R compounds, others are on street tires. As for the rest of the E30s, they are a long way behind me. The other E30 M3 was fully track prepped and has only turned up once.

When you stop and compare 2.3L motors of that time, the S14 is pretty much the King of the Hill. The Nissan KA24 is a truck motor, lots of torque, but only 150 hp, and its at low rpm. The Mercedes Cosworth 2.3L 16V is a cool motor, but again, the S14 was better. My guess is the reason BMW didn't use a 6cyl motor is because those are long cranks, and that would really screw with the weight balance of the car. Its got plenty of torque, but its up where its usable not down below 3k. I don't like motors that run out of go at 3K, and with the powerband where it is on the S14, its pretty much perfect. Sure, you have to drive the car like what it is, if you do that its got plenty of go. I'm all about having a powerband that starts at 4K and goes to 7K+. That is the way I drive. Do I run around in 3rd gear at 40 mph, you bet. That is where the car is happy. If you can't do this, the M3 is the wrong car for you.

I've driven other E30s, and they were lacking in many ways. I'd end up spending more to fix a standard E30 so it will drive the way I want than it would cost to just buy an M3 in the first place. The E30 M3 is the way it is because thats the way it needed to be in order to win the class it was racing in. It was a race car first, and a street car 2nd. The standard E30 was the other way around. Simple as that.

Will

[carfantiti]

^ I feel you brother A guy with sense ,knowledge finally:)
I have 196 k on my original motor not bad.
Most the e30 m3 have tired motors with lower compression on them before finally rebuilt.I driven in a rebuilt 2.3 with schrick cams it pulls as hard as a e36 m3 .I love all bmw m3 and non Just really not getting the guys who don't seem to know much about them.:)

[dinanm3atl]

What is with the 'don't know much about them'. I know plenty. I know the differences between the regular E30 and the M3. I get it. Just because he agrees with you does not immediately mean he has 'sense' and 'knowledge'. I understand the history. I get it. I just plain don't care. Again, it seems you have a lot of difficulty with this, when I am on the track in my E30 the racing pedigree of the E30 M3 has absolutely ZERO value. Zero. Neither does the bigger brakes, the 5 lugs, the reinforced chassis, the extra caster or the aluminum control arms. I upgraded all those parts on my car so the difference in stock versus stock is moot.

I also have cash in my pocket. I get it you love your E30 M3 and think it is the greatest. I don't see why you have to keep assuming and stating the people that do not love it like you do just don't have the knowledge and don't understand.

And I am well aware of driving around with high revs. 420G trans with a 3.73S rear end. I cruise around town in 4th and 5th gear because the revs are so high. I guess that makes it feel more racy right? At least when I floor it I have power from 2K to 7200. I understand the thrill of having to ring out the revs but that just doesn't excite me. I prefer 6 cylinder or bigger. AGAIN...an opinion!

Comparing Auto-X times mean little. Switch cars and see what happens. You are beating all E36s, E46s and E90s. You realize they are all faster than your car and handle better right? It sounds like your skill is higher than you. Our ChumpCar beat a Mazda MX-5 Miata(mid 2000 something) and a Acura RSX Type S at the last auto-X. This is a 100% STOCK ChumpCar... 325e. Our car is slower but one of our drivers is an awesome Auto-X driver. So I guess a 325E that is slower and handles worse than both of those cars is actually better... right? Did I mention we were running on Triangle Talon Sport 400TW tires?

This same piece of crap 325E passed an E30 M3 on the front straight. Now this is an Auto-X event in Run Group C but our driver was so much faster in the corners that the E30 M3 told him to go around. You would think it would be so much better that would not need to happen right?

[carfantiti]

^lol you always come threw :)
you race but the racing history means nothing to you lol.
man its cool the e30 m3 I get it is all hype reality is non existent in your world.
The large list I posted earlier just narrows done every time to 2 3 parts with you of difference.Not sure what about the fact is it is a e30 only made as a race car first .you track but do not like your same car from the same BMW manufactures that was changed from a stock car to a full race car to compete in dtm groupe a touring.For some crazy reason that just pisses you of and means shit to you.I love how you can bolt on a couple parts and magically know more than a full team of professional engineers that are apart of the same company that built your car.is your non m3 awsome yes!!!!do i love non m3 cars yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!stock to stock is a e30 m3 a better car hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
is it a better car than bolting on a few parts on a non m3 hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can you make your car out handle a stock e30 m3 yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can you make a miata out handle your car yes!!!!!!!!!!
you are so stuck that the racing history means crap to you on the track its all hype just smoke and mirrors.Man thats some major denial ?
Fact proven actual real life history is just nothing?
But the bolt ons and engine swap makes your car a track legend.
So when you start winning championship races and setting records let me know.Any body and his uncle can track a car that means nothing.
you don't want a e30 m3 yes I get it. your car is better yes I get it.
the e30 m3 was a nothing car built for collectors so they can just think they are better than every one else.The e30 m3 should sell for same price if not less then a 325i because it really just a 4 banger.
you win and the other haters of the e30 m3 what a looser I'm to love the m3.

[acolella76]

What is this I don't even feel like trolling anymore you win

E30 M3 is a cool car, I would prouldy own one. Still think the S14 sucks.

[carfantiti]

^no the e30 m3 sucks and yes your right so does the s14.
In fact think the Miata is better than any bmw ever built.

[Holland]

This thread hurts my brain.

[BlackbirdM3]

I hate to say it, but a Miata will beat a lot of cars on a track and autoX course. As much as I hate them, I respect them. If I get beaten by a Miata, oh well. I need to learn how to drive. Its a little embarrassing, but a well driven Miata will beat most cars on a track especially if its like Sears Point or Laguna Seca. As long as there aren't a lot of fast straights, a Miata will be hard to catch. For a budget track car, a Miata is hard to beat.

As for passing on an AutoX course, that is flat out illegal and the driver doing the passing should be asked to leave. Its a safety hazard and there is no passing in autoX.

I'm not the best driver out there. I can hold my own, and just because a car is newer and better on paper doesn't necessarily make it faster.

Will

[carfantiti]

^ I'm just talking gibberish but yes miata handles great I dont think its better than any bmw I just saying that cause I find these guys kinda in their own world:)
ow you have any pictures of that e30 m3 hyped up car :)

[BlackbirdM3]

How can you dislike this?









Will

[BlackbirdM3]

What is there not to like here? We have a true cold air intake, correct design velocity stacks inside the air box, dual over head cams, individual throttle bodies, and 16 valves sitting in a well designed cylinder head. The block is from a F1 motor, and the head off the M1 super car. Its a jewel of design that produces a boat load of power once tuned. Really, when any other E30 motor is compared to the S14, the S14 stands alone among a herd of lesser motors.





Will