E30 M3 a better starting point?

[dubdub]

So I was thinking of this the other day and wondered if someone on here had some views on the topic.

I have had 2 E30s that I have kept in very good condition... they have been drivers, but really they looked like newer cars. I am in the process of sorting out a few issues on my 1990 IX, and am considering a respray... but realized when I am done, I will still have a car that has a top-end value of $8k-ish.

Wouldn't it make more sense to start with an E30 M3? At least then, when I am "done" the car has a much higher residual value?

Let me also say, I make a good living and drive E30s because I like them, not because I needed a $3000 car... so I don't mind putting money in the car, and I do... but it just seems that maybe it could be better spent... since I'd be spending similar money, but would have something worth a lot more if I ever were to sell.

Thoughts?

[M-technik-3]

The hard part is finding one for sale. As a daily driver, I would not drive an E30M reason is they tend to attract a bit of attention. IE parking lots and Fast&Furious types want top race.

I pulled mine out today went to get some gas to mix up the tank and during the 20 minutes of driving had three F&F events.

[Gregs///M]

If your going to restore an old car for resale, an e30 m3 would yield more profit for sure.

[bimmerteck]

If your building e30s build whatever you want and insure it at what it would cost to replace it. The insurance will be more than most people pay on e30s but still less than a insurance much newer sports car.(I price shopped against a friends 996) You should plan to lose money selling the vehicle on either model e30 if you truly take excellent care of it, but if your looking to build e30s for profit forget it b/c you won't without cutting corners. (i.e. Vlad) You might make profit but it is in no way a sure thing in today's market.

[VinniE30]

Don't think about resale value. If you're only thinking about resale value then you have an e30 for the wrong reasons, just in it to make money, which isin't easy at all.

But since you want to talk about resale value...

If you start with a clean iX like you have (say it's worth $4-5k now for example) and spend $5k very wisely on it then you might be able to get the value up to around 8k like you said.

If you start with a clean e30 m3 ($20k) and spend $5k on it then you likely won't be able to get much more at all for it. Since the e30 m3 is highly sought after most of the value of one is in just a clean fully functional stock one than the modifications accompanying one.

If you start with a beat e30 m3 ($10k) and put that same $5k into it to fix it up then you might be able to sell it for $15k when your done. But that's not likely to happen. You should be buying it for your own pleasure, not to make money.

But still, in that regard the e30 is still way better value than newish cars. Buy a newish car and spend $5k on it on maintenance etc and you still will only be able to sell it for LESS because of depreciation. It's even worse if you spend it on modifications.
You won't get all your money back in modifications with an e30 but atleast you will get back some of it, unlike newish cars, which will only be worth less after mods.
But back to the point, stop thinking about resale value, if your this concerned with resale value then your in the e30 game for the wrong reason.

[Roysneon]

If your going to restore an old car for resale, an e30 m3 would yield more profit for sure.

Perhaps, but just to purchase one in need of work is pricey.

Not sure why we're so concerned with resale value of 20-25 year old Econocars (M3 not included). If you have one because you like them then why worry about selling? If you buy it to flip then just get the cheapest one with an original drivetrain and no rust, have it resprayed well, and freshen up the suspension.

[mikeb23ft]

He doesn't want to buy a car to make money he just wants to throw away less of his investment. From this perspective it might be worth it to buy an M3. I have heard that they are not very good daily driver cars, though. If you have the money, adding a stock M3 to your collection, driving it rarely and taking good care of it will probably not cost you much in depreciation. It won't be a good investment (like real estate, or a mutual fund, etc) but it will be better than spending the same 25k on a 325is or ix which would as you said top out around 8-10k. M3s are classics and will continue to appreciate; this is true for ix and is models also but the ceiling is much lower.

[reelizmpro]

So I was thinking of this the other day and wondered if someone on here had some views on the topic.

I have had 2 E30s that I have kept in very good condition... they have been drivers, but really they looked like newer cars. I am in the process of sorting out a few issues on my 1990 IX, and am considering a respray... but realized when I am done, I will still have a car that has a top-end value of $8k-ish.

Wouldn't it make more sense to start with an E30 M3? At least then, when I am "done" the car has a much higher residual value?

Let me also say, I make a good living and drive E30s because I like them, not because I needed a $3000 car... so I don't mind putting money in the car, and I do... but it just seems that maybe it could be better spent... since I'd be spending similar money, but would have something worth a lot more if I ever were to sell.

Thoughts?

Absolutely. The M3 is highly sought after and my guess is it will continue to be. Time is not on your side though. More and more will continue to be totaled, rusted out, track converted, etc. The window of opportunity is getting smaller and smaller. Look at Enthusiast Auto who formed a business based on these cars! Most of their cars are 20-30K, some modded and some stock...it really doesn't matter when it comes to M3's as most mods are factory and tasteful. There's buyers out there for both stock and modded cars. Nice Sport evo's in Europe are going between 50-80K USD. Given the cost of M3 mods, I'd argue there's more value in a modded car vs stock because not only are the parts expensive but they are already installed and the work is done for you. A stock M3 with 80K is going to need a lot of work.

I've owned 325e/eS/iS and now the cars in my sig. Believe me, I've been there and done that. Maybe a swapped 318iS is in my future? Who knows but for me...M3 all the way. It is and always will be the ultimate E30...that BMW motorsport built.

There was a thread on s14.net which asked..."why people do engine swaps on M3's?" The most popular response was they offset much of the cost of the swap by selling off the S14 specific items. My point is, even a salvage title/roller has a lot of value these days. It's pretty much a win-win situation but you typically have to invest more initially.

[SteveJ]

You already answered yourself.
You say you make a decent living and you drive E30's because you like them.

If you buy cars, drive them for a short time, and sell them, then you do need to consider resale values. That's all part of that financial equation, and the reason a lot of people will lease a car for a few years.

If you are like me, I buy a car and (continue to) hang on to it after 21 years. I got my M3 in 1990 and probably spent an additional $10k to $15k in all those years. (fuel, tires, parts, insurance, etc...) I'm in the process of a full restoration now and will probably have another $8k to $12k into that. In short, I have paid for this car 3 times over, but, I'd rather drive my old M3 than just about any new car.

Resale value only comes into play when you are selling.

If you want an E30M3, and can afford one, go get it.

SteveJ
Dublin, CA
72 tii, 83 320is, 88 M3, 99 E46, 08 R55 MCS,
...and too many bikes.

[BlackbirdM3]

He doesn't want to buy a car to make money he just wants to throw away less of his investment. From this perspective it might be worth it to buy an M3. I have heard that they are not very good daily driver cars, though. If you have the money, adding a stock M3 to your collection, driving it rarely and taking good care of it will probably not cost you much in depreciation. It won't be a good investment (like real estate, or a mutual fund, etc) but it will be better than spending the same 25k on a 325is or ix which would as you said top out around 8-10k. M3s are classics and will continue to appreciate; this is true for ix and is models also but the ceiling is much lower.

The value of the E30 M3 is going in one direction, up. The longer you hold onto it, the more its going to be worth. Deals can be found, you just need to shop carefully. In my case I spent $18K on mine, it appraised for a little less than twice that. Look at the cars on Enthusiast Auto, those all bring top dollar, and they do sell.

As for being a poor daily driver, the rumors are BS. I daily drive mine and its great. It gets about 18 mpg around town and 28 on the freeway. Its comfortable, looks good, and has no evil tendencies. The only issue I've had was the heater control valve died on me. I can't hold that against the car since every car I've ever owned has suffered that same issue. Have I fully finished sorting the car? No, but I'm getting there. Any car you buy will have something that needs attention, as of now however aside from the heater valve, most people would say my car is in pretty awesome shape. Heck I autoX it once a month and I'm always a front runner in class even with street tires and everything else being mostly stock (In a class where R compounds and stripped cars are allowed.) I will say the cars don't like to sit. My car hadn't been driven for 3 months when I bought it, and it took a couple days to clear out and start running well. If you drive the car on a regular basis, my experience is that its fine and happy. I talked to another local guy who has one and he said the car has been fantastic. Hes daily driven it for the past 12 years and has put 150K miles on it himself (the car as 220K+ on it) The interior on the car is tired, the paint needs a good polish, but the car sounds and runs great. I've heard similar stories from other owners as well. The cars need to be driven regularly to be happy.

Sure, if you buy a totally hammered M3, you will be fixing stuff for a long time, and its not going to be cheap. The good news is that they are pretty easy to work on, and parts are easy enough to get. (When compared to either a 43 year old Datsun made in limited numbers or a 43 year old Alfa Romeo that they made 640 of, or a 53 year old Alfa that needs everything.)

Seriously, if a well kept 180K+ mile M3 can still bring $20K+ I'd say its not a bad buy. This is especially true if you manage to buy low, enjoy the car and sell the car later for as much if not more money than you spent to buy it. Heck even if you bought the car at current market value, kept it up, and turned around and sold it after a few years, my guess is that it will still sell for what you have into the car.

Just a thought.

Will

[cferb]

Parts are not cheap for an M3, if you're looking to minimize loss or profit on an M3, you want one that needs very little work as is, if you buy one that needs work you'll be spending the initial cost difference in fixing it, maybe more. If you're gonna buy an M3, do so because you want it, if you just want an e30 and want the most for your money, get a 318 or 325 of some sort, parts are cheap and available.

I bought one that needed work because I wanted to be able to drive it without feeling bad, and I wanted to build it the way I wanted, again without feeling bad messing with a nice example. In the long run it would most likely have been cheaper for me to have just bought a nice one, but that's not what I wanted.

[bimmerteck]

I bought one that needed work because I wanted to be able to drive it without feeling bad, and I wanted to build it the way I wanted, again without feeling bad messing with a nice example. In the long run it would most likely have been cheaper for me to have just bought a nice one, but that's not what I wanted.

This seems to be where most of the m3 owners fall these days, they would rather buy one rough around the edges or that already needs a motor and build it to their own specs like I did with my 'vert.

It's a lot easier to find an acceptable rough m3 for building one than it is to find a clean one worth investing in IMHO, but I might be biased. :???:

[cferb]

I dunno, I've seen a ton of them for pretty good prices in good, but not amazing, shape, not as many that are rough, but I guess that depends on that you would call rough too. Problem with buying one that's rough is that if it's a good deal it won't last long. Luckily I have some connections, my M3 was never listed FS.

[mikeedler]

Don't think about resale value. If you're only thinking about resale value then you have an e30 for the wrong reasons, just in it to make money, which isin't easy at all.

I don't agree with that at all. I call the E30 the "new-age" 70 Chevelle. even the Malibu (the 318 of Chevelles- brings big money. the following will be as big as the those cars are today- I remember in H.S. 70 Chevelles for 500-1000 dollars. today!!!!!! no chance under $10,000

the LS6 holy grail 70 Chevelles are selling for 100,000-500,000 at retard auctions, and I am sure the EVO III will be in that league in another 20-30 years too.


buy what makes you happy- if you can afford it, get the M3, it is cult and makes a great conversation piece. I personally have 1 of each and will keep the M tech II 325i just as long as the M3.

[BlackbirdM3]

I don't agree with that at all. I call the E30 the "new-age" 70 Chevelle. even the Malibu (the 318 of Chevelles- brings big money. the following will be as big as the those cars are today- I remember in H.S. 70 Chevelles for 500-1000 dollars. today!!!!!! no chance under $10,000

the LS6 holy grail 70 Chevelles are selling for 100,000-500,000 at retard auctions, and I am sure the EVO III will be in that league in another 20-30 years too.


buy what makes you happy- if you can afford it, get the M3, it is cult and makes a great conversation piece. I personally have 1 of each and will keep the M tech II 325i just as long as the M3.

The Sport Evos are already at the $100K+ mark. http://www.ebay.com/itm/330701716686...#ht_500wt_1101

Like I said, the values of the M3 are just going up. They are great driving cars and just get better when they are turned loose. If you want one, get one. Be prepared to spend the $ for one however. $15-18K buys you a good one with the proper research and patience.

Will