WWR3VD: Bolt-ons v. Low Budget Turbo

[euro2fast4u]

The main difference as Kamotors said was the difference between low boost and high boost is head studs and injectors

[Andy348]

Mine doesnt have the MAF, but if you ever find youself in NJ lemme know haha You can take mine for a spin and piss my neighbors off too

Thanks for the offer but don't expect to see me anytime soon! haha

just realized you mention the car is NOT a daily driver, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't turbo if your looking for a fast car. A decent and reliable setup will cost about 2k when your all said and done and the 2 major expenses will be engine management and the turbo.

A GOOD low boost setup will not be much cheaper than a GOOD higher boost setup.

the only things I changed that didn't break and need replacing from my 7psi to 20psi setup is headstuds. even a low boost setup really benefits from a good engine management.

I've already budgeted ARP head studs, which may be overkill for 7-8 psi. The reason I'm not going 10psi and PNP MS is firstly price, and secondly lack of dyno tuning. First off, I can't tune for shit, yet I'm sure I could learn in the months before I start the project. The second problem is finding a dyno anywhere near where I'm building the car, which is practically impossible. If it's possible to street tune an MS set up, please enlighten me.

I went all out suspension first, what is the point of speed with a cheap suspension?

Suspension first then collect for a turbo over a small period of time.

I'm content with where my suspension is now - all the necessary mounts and shit will be/have been replaced, its low enough, it handles well. Only thing I'd like would be sways, but that could come later (if I go turbo).

What I'm thinking now is maybe finding good deals and buying an MAF/Chip/Inj/Diff/Intake, seeing if I feel the difference, and then selling it all if its not enough. Not exactly the most cost effective option, but I may? be able to break even.

[nando]

I've already budgeted ARP head studs, which may be overkill for 7-8 psi. The reason I'm not going 10psi and PNP MS is firstly price, and secondly lack of dyno tuning. First off, I can't tune for shit, yet I'm sure I could learn in the months before I start the project. The second problem is finding a dyno anywhere near where I'm building the car, which is practically impossible. If it's possible to street tune an MS set up, please enlighten me.

it's very possible, all you need is a wideband and a laptop. you can't really street tune ignition but there's a plethora of dyno tuned turbo ignition maps, and if you leave the engine stock internally you should be able to find some very good ones.

if you went that route I'd do a PnP while it's still N/A and learn how to tune, get it running well stock, then drop the turbo in and go from there. much easier learning curve and you'll have a much harder time killing an N/A M20 with a bad tune.

[evandael]

I've already budgeted ARP head studs, which may be overkill for 7-8 psi. The reason I'm not going 10psi and PNP MS is firstly price, and secondly lack of dyno tuning. First off, I can't tune for shit, yet I'm sure I could learn in the months before I start the project. The second problem is finding a dyno anywhere near where I'm building the car, which is practically impossible. If it's possible to street tune an MS set up, please enlighten me..

you can tune! that's the whole premise of MS.. it's a capable and quality engine tuning option for the masses. the only thing holding you back is the time it will take to learn. i'm with Nando, as well.. get your car running on MS without the turbo first, it'll give you time to work the kinks out and develop knowledge of cause-and-effect with the tuning variables.

my opinion on it.. you should swap the diff. see where that puts you. then if you decide to go ahead with the turbo build, run an HX30 with a manifold adapter and a 2.5" turbo-back with a resonator and muffler. should be cheap enough and quiet enough while still flowing well.

as far prepping the block, don't bother with the 2.7 bottom end, you already have a good running B25! if you're staying around 10psi and are properly intercooled, o-ringing the block with Metric Blue head studs (less expensive but not worse than ARP) and an OE oversized headgasket will be enough.

buy a pre-built MS plug-and-play unit from DIYAutotune, and use the stock harness with 35# injectors from an SVO Mustang. you ditch the stock AFM, obviously, and using MAP sensor and an LC1 wideband you can definitely road tune it.. carefully of course!


i think you can do it man, and you should. with 10psi and a good tune on 91 i bet you could get anywhere from 250-300whp depending on what size turbine you select/whether you'd prefer quick spool or maximum flow.

[kamotors]

Tuning is maybe confusing for the first month after that its super easy and with the Forums you can get tons of help, megasquirt can datalog and help you tune! no need for a dyno as long as you have a laptop and are willing to drive around and tune your car.

[Andy348]

it's very possible, all you need is a wideband and a laptop. you can't really street tune ignition but there's a plethora of dyno tuned turbo ignition maps, and if you leave the engine stock internally you should be able to find some very good ones.

if you went that route I'd do a PnP while it's still N/A and learn how to tune, get it running well stock, then drop the turbo in and go from there. much easier learning curve and you'll have a much harder time killing an N/A M20 with a bad tune.

Sounds like fun. Are there books on MS that I could pick up? Maybe a tuning for dummies book. I'm kind of hesitant to google megasquirt sitting in class for fear of what could come up on google haha.

you can tune! that's the whole premise of MS.. it's a capable and quality engine tuning option for the masses. the only thing holding you back is the time it will take to learn. i'm with Nando, as well.. get your car running on MS without the turbo first, it'll give you time to work the kinks out and develop knowledge of cause-and-effect with the tuning variables.

my opinion on it.. you should swap the diff. see where that puts you. then if you decide to go ahead with the turbo build, run an HX30 with a manifold adapter and a 2.5" turbo-back with a resonator and muffler. should be cheap enough and quiet enough while still flowing well.

as far prepping the block, don't bother with the 2.7 bottom end, you already have a good running B25! if you're staying around 10psi and are properly intercooled, o-ringing the block with Metric Blue head studs (less expensive but not worse than ARP) and an OE oversized headgasket will be enough.

buy a pre-built MS plug-and-play unit from DIYAutotune, and use the stock harness with 35# injectors from an SVO Mustang. you ditch the stock AFM, obviously, and using MAP sensor and an LC1 wideband you can definitely road tune it.. carefully of course!


i think you can do it man, and you should. with 10psi and a good tune on 91 i bet you could get anywhere from 250-300whp depending on what size turbine you select/whether you'd prefer quick spool or maximum flow.

I think the diff is where I'll start because it seems like it will make the most difference. Want to sell me a cheap(er) 3.73? :)

Either way I'm very much interested in learning to tune. Is there benefits to MS for a non-turboed engine in the mean time? Because I wouldn't mind going MS/3.73LSD/19#/M30 AFM (if possible) and tuning that this summer, and then maybe by the end of the summer, funds allowing, I'll shoot for a 300whp set up or something.

Tuning is maybe confusing for the first month after that its super easy and with the Forums you can get tons of help, megasquirt can datalog and help you tune! no need for a dyno as long as you have a laptop and are willing to drive around and tune your car.

Definitely willing to learn and go on random drives to tune. I'll be out in the boonies for 4 months, there won't be much else to do!

Looks like I've got a lot of researching ahead of me.

I appreciate the help guys, and feel free to keep adding suggestions

[emerson.]

This is my car vs a stock m20b25 with 4.10 LSD.
Keep in mind I'm making 12 psi on a VERY conservative tune with little timing, and it still walks away from the stock car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyxKRK8QLdA

Bewst it

[euro2fast4u]

This is my car vs a stock m20b25 with 4.10 LSD.
Keep in mind I'm making 12 psi on a VERY conservative tune with little timing, and it still walks away from the stock car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyxKRK8QLdA

Bewst it

thats what you call bus lengths

[emerson.]

:D or Kc-135 lengths lol http:// http://www.militaryaircraft....7_2252_800.jpg

[Andy348]

This is my car vs a stock m20b25 with 4.10 LSD.
Keep in mind I'm making 12 psi on a VERY conservative tune with little timing, and it still walks away from the stock car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyxKRK8QLdA

Bewst it

Wow.

More specs on the build?

[euro2fast4u]

a turbo does cool things huh

[emerson.]

Wow.

More specs on the build?

http://e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113344

... you have to sift through alot of chit chat lol
basically collected parts over 3 or 4 months and put it all on over a 3 day weekend

revshift turbo manifold
hx35
cheapo wastegate
60lb injectors
megasquirt
fx400 clutch

[Andy348]

...just found an S50B30 for $500 on local classifieds, missing some parts and apparently in need of pistons.

Time to see how much rebuilding an S50 would cost.

[evandael]

^finding pistons, and barring any other catastrophic failures, i would budget at least $1500 for a good rebuilt (head hot-tanked, skimmed, valves and seats lapped, new valve stem seals, all new seals/gaskets, timing chains, sprockets, tensioners, and guides, rod and main bearings/bolts, piston rings, thermostat and waterpump, belts, VANOS rebuild)

not to mention sourcing the wiring harness/DME (if it doesn't come with it), booster, e34 pan/pickup, e36 mount arms, modified trans brace (if you're using the g260), and all new mounts.


all in all, it'll likely be the same expense as a proper turbo. time to decide if you want 24v smoothness and reliability or M20 rawness and power!

[pandaboo911]

What do you use the car for mostly? If you use it mostly on the track get suspension and some bolt-ons, maybe do the RX7 BBK.

if you use it mostly as a fun car to take on the streets or mountain runs go turbo m20