wich company lost its way? (jalopnik review)

[oliver.r]

thats true and i agree but the way i saw it bmw was one of the only companies that still cared about fanatics

[JinormusJ]

BMW definitely has to be higher on the list. FWD; 3- I mean, "4 Series"; X6"M. Need I list more examples of how BMW is all about "Brand Marketting for Women" now and not about precision and performance like back in the day. Audi drops their FWD for their AWD Quattros to become more competitive, so BMW retaliates by..! Embracing a FWD model?? BMW Engineers are turning into sacrilegious robots

Honda? "New" civic? "New" Accord? HAH! Beige cloth boring madness. Same thing for 6+ years gets drab after a while. CR-V? LOL "Performance"-Hybrid? Do those words even belong together? Honda sure proved they don't. Acura, AKA Fugl-ura has taken their TL with their ugly freakin grille, marketed that, then made the TL fatter, made it a hatch back, added a lift kit, a few extra chairs, slapped an MDX badge on it, and marketed that.. Really..???

Mitsubishi..? Not a recent 2012 thing, but they're hit an all time low and have stayed there for years without any sign of trying to go higher. Dropping out of Rallying, dropping the AWD Turbo Eclipse, dropping the Evo, going strictly electric; one mistake after another; the company can only endure so many hits before it starts going down hill.

[Nick_S]

BMW's are now sold for the badge on the hood. A status symbol (they always somewhat were), but they have stopped making enthusiasts based cars. Which isn't all their fault, I really don't think the over whelming majority of people could care less about that. A car is no longer an expression of someone's personal taste or enjoyment, it's an appliance to go to and from work in comfort, luxury and safety. No one cares about the connected feeling you get from the front wheels telling you exactly what the car is doing through the steering wheel. People want a muted, sensible, safe drive. It sucks.

Honda is up there on my list too. They used to make some very, very nice cars but they seem to be the forefront of the appliance market for cars. Reliable as the sunrise which is great, people don't want to worry about their cars but man it would be great to see a car like an Integra type R come back. 8K+ rpm redline, well balanced chassis, perfect steering and brake feel. Non of that computer assisted non-sense.

I'll be hanging onto my cars for awhile because it's going to be harder and harder to find a car I truly enjoy driving after awhile.

[oliver.r]

I wonder if this trend will ever be reversed, I don't think it will.
There are definitely enthusiast cars out there but not everyone can afford a gtr or Ferrari.911... Speaking of 911s, Porsche is losing their shit too

[BlackbirdM3]

I have to be honest here. There are only 3 cars built in the last 25 years that I'd be interested in owning, A Lotus Exage, a Porsche GT3 RS, and perhaps an S2000. If I want a 4 door, E28 M5 is the only thing that interests me in the lest. Everything on the market now is built to be thrown away in 5 years so they can sell you a new car. They aren't designed well from the start so they will have to be replaced about the time the warranty runs out. The resale values are crap, and to fix things like a touch screen that controls everything in the car is going to cost an arm and a leg. If you don't replace it, you will likely loose a good portion of the electrically controlled items in the car. Epic Fail right there.

I see more and more frivolous fluff added in as "Technology" that is really a distraction to already distracted drivers, leading to more accidents. The cost to repair said cars is so high that you might as well total the thing and buy a new car. Between this and insurance companies being good for nothing, I have to say all manufacturers have lost their way in a quest to sell more cars of lower quality, but charging top dollar for the crap they sell.

I'm one of the few people who care more about performance than comfort or gizmos. Why would I be interested in a GT3 RS? Because its a bare bones, stripped down street going version of the RSR race car. Its got nothing, and is designed for true enthusiasts. The only issue is, they aren't making them anymore (I couldn't find it on the Porsche website at least.)

The bottom line is, well the bottom line. They are selling mediocre, ugly vehicles at top dollar designed to die in a relatively short time so they can sell you another POS for top dollar 5-7 years down the road.

Will

[mrbeef612]

You guys are all right... BMW is just sad... I do not like new cars they are to controlled to much BS in them. My E30 sedan weights in a 2800 pounds... Its fun handles great and gets mid 20's MPG.. If you look at newer 3 series sedans they are over 4000 pounds.. WTF.. If I wanted a huge car I would by a suburban. The only new to me car I will buy is a E36 M3 to me BMW after the E36 they just lost the fun factor its just a name now. And it makes me sad and sick.

[mikeedler]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

[ELVA164]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Unfortunately, people like us are a small percentage of the population, and an expensive one to produce for. We expect a lot more out of our cars than most people, which means a lot more R&D and a lot less flexibility for sales.

[rich4rdee]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

this. BMW pours millions into market research and analysis. bmw is producing a lot of cool cars lately imo; the 1 series M coupe, possible tri turbo m3?, 335is anyone?

obviously these cars aren't going to become barebones like they were in the 80s because of government oversight. every piece of technology that comes from the automotive industry (seat belts, side impact air bags, traction control, etc) costs millions to implement, yet becomes government mandated after a few years. this drives up the weight and cost to manufacture new vehicles, so i only see cars becoming heavier by all automakers.

[Holland]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

All of us can talk until we are blue in the face, but this is the bottom line...

Besides, BMW thanks us for cleaning out all their old parts inventory, thus making them more money.

[Todd Black 88]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

Thank you!

Finally a coherent thought in this thread.

I own an e30 M3, a 92 Mtech II cab, and a 2012 328i xdrive touring.
The M3 is only worth driving hard, on a TRACK, anywhere else it's..........a 25 year old car in a world of minivans. The cab is useless on anything other than a sunny day.
The 2012 I can drive anytime, anywhere, quicker and in more comfort than either cars, anywhere other than a race track. If I could only have one car, it would be the 2012.

[BlackbirdM3]

Thank you!

Finally a coherent thought in this thread.

I own an e30 M3, a 92 Mtech II cab, and a 2012 328i xdrive touring.
The M3 is only worth driving hard, on a TRACK, anywhere else it's..........a 25 year old car in a world of minivans. The cab is useless on anything other than a sunny day.
The 2012 I can drive anytime, anywhere, quicker and in more comfort than either cars, anywhere other than a race track. If I could only have one car, it would be the 2012.

I have to disagree whole heatedly. I'll admit, I'm not a fan of cabs, but still, they are different. The M3 and cab can both be driven anywhere anytime. The M3 turns heads, people who know what it is respect it. a '12 328 is nothing special. They have built tons of them and will be worth nothing in the end. There is nothing special about it. It might as well be a cow in a field, very common (the cow will taste better when its grilled on my bbq.) Modern cars all lack rear visibility, and all look the same. No personality what so ever.

Heck, I put 1300 miles on my M3 in the past week. It had rain, snow, and clear skies, two mountain passes, a desert, and everything in between. The car never missed a beat nor was it uncomfortable. Heck, it got 29 mpg to boot. Yeah, its 25 years old, and it did EVERYTHING that any modern car does just as well.

Will

[Todd Black 88]

Hahaha, I am 38 years old and past the need to have a car that "turns heads"! And we are talking about driving a car, not looking at it or liking it because it's different.

Your 1300 miles had how many city traffic stop and go miles ? Hmmm.
The wagon will do everything on your trip, as well as sit comfortably in traffic, stop and go, etc.
I am not new to e30 ownership, and have owned my M3 for 8 years, and I will state here and now, the M3 was designed with a race track in mind, and that's where it excels. Evrywhere the average person drives, 99% of the time spent on the road, the M3 is no better at that job than a civic........probably worse.

Most people use there cars to commute, not do 1300 mile trips through mountain passes every week.

[mulletman]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

If sales are the measure of a car, then apparently the Honda Accord is the best car of all time. Sales determining the greatness of a product is a logical fallacy.

this. BMW pours millions into market research and analysis. bmw is producing a lot of cool cars lately imo; the 1 series M coupe, possible tri turbo m3?, 335is anyone?

obviously these cars aren't going to become barebones like they were in the 80s because of government oversight. every piece of technology that comes from the automotive industry (seat belts, side impact air bags, traction control, etc) costs millions to implement, yet becomes government mandated after a few years. this drives up the weight and cost to manufacture new vehicles, so i only see cars becoming heavier by all automakers.

The 'safety regulations' and 'government mandate' thing is a damn cop-out. Plain and simple. The Lotus Elise/Exige platform was made until last year, and weighed less than 2000 lbs. Are they exempt from safety standards? How about the Miata? Right around 2000 lbs for much of it's life, the current version weighs 2500 or so. The new Mini weighs in at about 2600 lbs. Hell, the Evo IX weighed roughly 3100, and that's with 4 doors and a heavy AWD system. The Subaru 2.5RS 2-door of a few years back weighs about as much as an E30, again with a heavy AWD system. The brand-spanking-new Lotus Evora is still pretty light. The Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS are light.

Light cars are still possible. BMW simply isn't trying anymore. Low weight is not their target.

[oliver.r]

I feel like some of you guys missed the point of the review,
Bmw does make excellent vehicles but they are no longer the perfoance oriented vehicles they once were