wich company lost its way? (jalopnik review)

[ohthejosh]

To be honest I like the f10 a lot. It is extremely comfortable and feels luxurious which seems right. It looks just right as well imo, Im sure the 7 series is luxurious and comfortable but it looks like a damn airbus! Just too large for a car.

Now guys dont for get about this beauty BMW is selling -__-;

[mikeedler]

If sales are the measure of a car, then apparently the Honda Accord is the best car of all time. Sales determining the greatness of a product is a logical fallacy.




BMW is trying to make money, not racecars.




The 'safety regulations' and 'government mandate' thing is a damn cop-out. Plain and simple. The Lotus Elise/Exige platform was made until last year, and weighed less than 2000 lbs. Are they exempt from safety standards? How about the Miata? Right around 2000 lbs for much of it's life, the current version weighs 2500 or so. The new Mini weighs in at about 2600 lbs. Hell, the Evo IX weighed roughly 3100, and that's with 4 doors and a heavy AWD system. The Subaru 2.5RS 2-door of a few years back weighs about as much as an E30, again with a heavy AWD system. The brand-spanking-new Lotus Evora is still pretty light. The Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS are light.

Light cars are still possible. BMW simply isn't trying anymore. Low weight is not their target.

And Lotus is nothing compared to BMW, it is a TINY little company. Once again, maybe 5% of the population wants a bare bones Elise, I would much rather prefer a car with a ton of comfort options and still have well over 300hp and doesn't rattle my back to death.

End is, 95% of the people in the world do not want little cars, they want SAFETY and comfort all in a car that drives itself.


I fall in the 5% that doesn't need that stuff, but damn it sure is nice rolling down the German autobahn in a new F10 doing 250kmh and still getting 5.5l/ 100km and hearing close to zero road noise.

[ohthejosh]

And Lotus is nothing compared to BMW, it is a TINY little company. Once again, maybe 5% of the population wants a bare bones Elise, I would much rather prefer a car with a ton of comfort options and still have well over 300hp and doesn't rattle my back to death.

End is, 95% of the people in the world do not want little cars, they want SAFETY and comfort all in a car that drives itself.


I fall in the 5% that doesn't need that stuff, but damn it sure is nice rolling down the German autobahn in a new F10 doing 250kmh and still getting 5.5l/ 100km and hearing close to zero road noise.

I think we can all agree that, we would LOVE if BMW would provide a lineup of pure performance vehicles. I know that's what the M division is for but that brand has become watered down to its core and for those who are BMW loyalists and enthusiasts it is very disheartening to see where BMW is heading.

Maybe they should just have another branch of the M division that caters to the needs of those that can truly appreciate the performance engineering greatness that BMW has. Or maybe just make that extra model such as the CSL which was amazing!

If BMW keeps creating things like a 4 series, x1, x6, 6 series grand coupe, 5 series gran turismo, etc. they would just become a plain jane auto manufacturer. No soul or excitement left in the brand name.

[oliver.r]

exactly the point of the jalopnik review ^

[Jon325i]

BMW has definitely lost its way over the years....there's isn't anything too inspiring or lust-worthy in the new car portfolio. Cars from earlier years have more appeal to me. In no specific order, they are....

E46 M3
M coupe (Z3 and Z4 variants)
E39 M5
E34 M5
E30s
1M coupe
2002

I personally think Audi is creating better cars than BMW now. The new A4, compared to the new 3-series, looks nicer IMHO and the S4 is pretty badass. Can't overlook any version of the R8.....BMW has nothing to compare to this. Audi, thanks to VW AG, has been leading the charge with clean diesel cars in the US. BMW has only had a few in recent years, but they plan to bring more.

Jon

[mulletman]

And Lotus is nothing compared to BMW, it is a TINY little company. Once again, maybe 5% of the population wants a bare bones Elise

Lotus is 'nothing?' Right. Being a small company means you're irrelevant? Yet another logical fallacy. I'd rather have a small number of good cars, than a million shitty ones. See GM for a good example of that. I suppose the McLaren company is 'nothing' too. And Koenigsegg. And Ducati. So if Lotus is 'nothing,' then why have they been able to do something that BMW apparently can't, in making a modern car that is light?

Care to address the other examples of modern light cars? I suppose Toyota, Subaru, and Mitsubishi are all 'nothing' too.

I would much rather prefer a car with a ton of comfort options and still have well over 300hp and doesn't rattle my back to death.

You'd rather have this, even when you're in the market for a sporting car? If someone is buying an M3 or 1M, they're in the market for a good driver's car. Or at least they used to be. Why shoot yourself in the foot with literally a 'ton' of shit?

End is, 95% of the people in the world do not want little cars, they want SAFETY and comfort all in a car that drives itself.

I agree. 95% of people can buy other cars, then. BMW M Division should be the 5%.

And once again, sales numbers do not determine how great of a driver's car something is.

I fall in the 5% that doesn't need that stuff, but damn it sure is nice rolling down the German autobahn in a new F10 doing 250kmh and still getting 5.5l/ 100km and hearing close to zero road noise.

Enjoy your supersonic sofa. I'd rather be going 60 mph around a turn with my knee on the ground, feeling like the pavement is going past my head at mach 1.

[Charlie]

Which part of "not our fucking demo" do R3V kiddies not get?

BMW does not care about kids making 8/hr and driving 25 year old cars. You don't buy cars. It's a simple as that. BMW builds larger, softer and heavier luxo-boxes because their primary demographic (women), want them. The X1 sells huge, the X3 moves markets, the Countryman sells well, China loves the 550gt. BMW is a for-profit company, they like money, and as such, produce products that their customers want.

Enthusiasts sit behind their keyboards and bitch up a storm, but when it comes to whipping out their wallet, they shrivel back into their pants and walk away. The E36 M3 LTW? flopped. The E36/7 M coupes? Flopped. The lightweight, fun and tossable e36 318ti compact? Flopped. The E86 Z4 & M coupes? They couldn't give those things away. The Pontiac GTO, the car everyone clamored for? Flopped. The CTS-Wagon that all the internet jizzed on, rotted on the lot. The new Toyo-barus? Go listen to kiddies on the internet bitch that they're "too expensive" at 25k and don't have 400 hp.

Once again, "enthusiasts" have proven they don't buy cars. Hence, the automakers don't give a shit.

You want a lightweight, enthusiast focused BMW with a warranty? They've got you covered. They just stick a British flag on it and call it a MINI. Go pick up a JCW Coupe. They're badass cars.

That, or, you know, just buy a bike. BMW makes some awesome ones.

-Charlie

[mulletman]

Which part of "not our fucking demo" do R3V kiddies not get?

BMW does not care about kids making 8/hr and driving 25 year old cars. You don't buy cars. It's a simple as that. BMW builds larger, softer and heavier luxo-boxes because their primary demographic (women), want them. The X1 sells huge, the X3 moves markets, the Countryman sells well, China loves the 550gt. BMW is a for-profit company, they like money, and as such, produce products that their customers want.

Enthusiasts sit behind their keyboards and bitch up a storm, but when it comes to whipping out their wallet, they shrivel back into their pants and walk away. The E36 M3 LTW? flopped. The E36/7 M coupes? Flopped. The lightweight, fun and tossable e36 318ti compact? Flopped. The E86 Z4 & M coupes? They couldn't give those things away. The Pontiac GTO, the car everyone clamored for? Flopped. The CTS-Wagon that all the internet jizzed on, rotted on the lot. The new Toyo-barus? Go listen to kiddies on the internet bitch that they're "too expensive" at 25k and don't have 400 hp.

Once again, "enthusiasts" have proven they don't buy cars. Hence, the automakers don't give a shit.

You want a lightweight, enthusiast focused BMW with a warranty? They've got you covered. They just stick a British flag on it and call it a MINI. Go pick up a JCW Coupe. They're badass cars.

That, or, you know, just buy a bike. BMW makes some awesome ones.

-Charlie

Truth. It's unfortunate that this is the case, but it's true.

And the S1000RR is awesome.

[Mlarsen]

^ That right there is the harsh reality that is the car market.

[Massimo]

I agree with the fwd and 4 series comments. What the fuck is an m4

the M4 is what the M6 grand coupe is to the M5

[Massimo]

Which part of "not our fucking demo" do R3V kiddies not get?

BMW does not care about kids making 8/hr and driving 25 year old cars. You don't buy cars. It's a simple as that. BMW builds larger, softer and heavier luxo-boxes because their primary demographic (women), want them. The X1 sells huge, the X3 moves markets, the Countryman sells well, China loves the 550gt. BMW is a for-profit company, they like money, and as such, produce products that their customers want.

Enthusiasts sit behind their keyboards and bitch up a storm, but when it comes to whipping out their wallet, they shrivel back into their pants and walk away. The E36 M3 LTW? flopped. The E36/7 M coupes? Flopped. The lightweight, fun and tossable e36 318ti compact? Flopped. The E86 Z4 & M coupes? They couldn't give those things away. The Pontiac GTO, the car everyone clamored for? Flopped. The CTS-Wagon that all the internet jizzed on, rotted on the lot. The new Toyo-barus? Go listen to kiddies on the internet bitch that they're "too expensive" at 25k and don't have 400 hp.

Once again, "enthusiasts" have proven they don't buy cars. Hence, the automakers don't give a shit.

You want a lightweight, enthusiast focused BMW with a warranty? They've got you covered. They just stick a British flag on it and call it a MINI. Go pick up a JCW Coupe. They're badass cars.

That, or, you know, just buy a bike. BMW makes some awesome ones.

-Charlie

Well it is more likely that it is the share holders who want to see a bigger and bigger returns every quarter, it may not be what BMW wants but it is what it has to do.

[ohthejosh]

Which part of "not our fucking demo" do R3V kiddies not get?

BMW does not care about kids making 8/hr and driving 25 year old cars. You don't buy cars. It's a simple as that. BMW builds larger, softer and heavier luxo-boxes because their primary demographic (women), want them. The X1 sells huge, the X3 moves markets, the Countryman sells well, China loves the 550gt. BMW is a for-profit company, they like money, and as such, produce products that their customers want.

Enthusiasts sit behind their keyboards and bitch up a storm, but when it comes to whipping out their wallet, they shrivel back into their pants and walk away. The E36 M3 LTW? flopped. The E36/7 M coupes? Flopped. The lightweight, fun and tossable e36 318ti compact? Flopped. The E86 Z4 & M coupes? They couldn't give those things away. The Pontiac GTO, the car everyone clamored for? Flopped. The CTS-Wagon that all the internet jizzed on, rotted on the lot. The new Toyo-barus? Go listen to kiddies on the internet bitch that they're "too expensive" at 25k and don't have 400 hp.

Once again, "enthusiasts" have proven they don't buy cars. Hence, the automakers don't give a shit.

You want a lightweight, enthusiast focused BMW with a warranty? They've got you covered. They just stick a British flag on it and call it a MINI. Go pick up a JCW Coupe. They're badass cars.

That, or, you know, just buy a bike. BMW makes some awesome ones.

-Charlie

You talk as if absolutely nobody on this forums realizes what you explained. The entire point of this thread and article was created from the point of a car enthusiast not the main demo graphic. As enthusiasts we would love to see a better range of quality performance cars from a quality performance car manufacturer.

Will we get what we want? Of course not and we ALL know this. We are just upset at the fact that the beloved brand is becoming a shell of what it used to be. I still buy their new cars, they are still great but not what they use to be. Its all cluttered with gizmos and electronics and take away from the performance engineering that I personally enjoy. All the luxury and comfort options are awesome for an everyday driver but the balance between luxury and performance has been permanently tipped in favor of luxury which is what most are unhappy about on this board.

[Vtec?lol]

Lol the CEOs and shit at BMW should read this thread.

Also, I would have to to say the e60 M5 was the last enthusiast car. Even with its shorty electronics and over complicated interior, it's amazing power plant makes up for all if it. The way it puts its power down through a tight 6spd is amazing. A lightweight high revving 5 liter v10 that just sings when it moves. All that motor through a 6spd manual? Fucking yes please. Even the SMG was an awesome experience. I'd honestly prefer the SMG so I can drive my car everyday. Idk, that car is an all around winner. Groceries? Sure. Room for 5? Easy! Road trips? Comforting. God they are amazing cars

E46 m3? Nah. Euro e36 m3s run circles around those boats.

[obes]

Which part of "not our fucking demo" do R3V kiddies not get?

BMW does not care about kids making 8/hr and driving 25 year old cars. You don't buy cars. It's a simple as that. BMW builds larger, softer and heavier luxo-boxes because their primary demographic (women), want them. The X1 sells huge, the X3 moves markets, the Countryman sells well, China loves the 550gt. BMW is a for-profit company, they like money, and as such, produce products that their customers want.

Enthusiasts sit behind their keyboards and bitch up a storm, but when it comes to whipping out their wallet, they shrivel back into their pants and walk away. The E36 M3 LTW? flopped. The E36/7 M coupes? Flopped. The lightweight, fun and tossable e36 318ti compact? Flopped. The E86 Z4 & M coupes? They couldn't give those things away. The Pontiac GTO, the car everyone clamored for? Flopped. The CTS-Wagon that all the internet jizzed on, rotted on the lot. The new Toyo-barus? Go listen to kiddies on the internet bitch that they're "too expensive" at 25k and don't have 400 hp.

Once again, "enthusiasts" have proven they don't buy cars. Hence, the automakers don't give a shit.

You want a lightweight, enthusiast focused BMW with a warranty? They've got you covered. They just stick a British flag on it and call it a MINI. Go pick up a JCW Coupe. They're badass cars.

That, or, you know, just buy a bike. BMW makes some awesome ones.

-Charlie

haha..i was waiting for someone to say all of this

i couldn't agree more

its funny how everyone complains.." oooo BMW has lost its way" ... quite frankly BMW/automakers can give a rats ass ..the cars now are awesome..fit for daily use. a lot of r3v kids can barely even afford an e30..so who cares what BMW cars are being produced lol

[enigmaticdream]

Thank you!

Finally a coherent thought in this thread.

I own an e30 M3, a 92 Mtech II cab, and a 2012 328i xdrive touring.
The M3 is only worth driving hard, on a TRACK, anywhere else it's..........a 25 year old car in a world of minivans. The cab is useless on anything other than a sunny day.
The 2012 I can drive anytime, anywhere, quicker and in more comfort than either cars, anywhere other than a race track. If I could only have one car, it would be the 2012.

I'll agree with you on the e30 M3. I've been driving it for the past two months since my other cars were out of commission. It is absolutely boring under 4k. Just a crappy 4 banger. It is awesome when revving it out, but you have to wait 15+ minutes to get the oil up to temp. For me, I'm just pulling into work when I can final give it a little pull toward the upper rpms. However, I must say you don't HAVE to track the car to get the most out of it. Compared to the e46 M3 you can have a lot of fun without getting into cuff territory.

Although slightly different than your cab, my 325is is a great DD. Nice low end torque with plenty of upper end power to pass, etc. Plenty of visibility which is good from keeping your ass out of getting in accidents.

Comparing my e46 M3 and e30 325is as a DD I would go with the 325is. Better visibility, more comfortable, better overall sensory awareness, and being smaller it is easier to squeeze through tight spaces (right hand turns at lights for example).