Engine Dilemma

[OrangeFiero]

My car is being built for drifting, but will still be streetable. My almost 200k m20 only made 137hp and 135tq last week on the dyno. I need more power, and i have 2 options, rebuild m20 and turbo, or m50 swap. Im not looking for a ton of power, just enough to drift competitively, maybe +/- 250whp. Ive been ging back and forth for months now... im afraid a basic m50 swap wont get me enough power, but its cheaper than boosting an m20. What are your experiences, e30 drift people.

[hashi]

My car is being built for drifting, but will still be streetable. My almost 200k m20 only made 137hp and 135tq last week on the dyno. I need more power, and i have 2 options, rebuild m20 and turbo, or m50 swap. Im not looking for a ton of power, just enough to drift competitively, maybe +/- 250whp. Ive been ging back and forth for months now... im afraid a basic m50 swap wont get me enough power, but its cheaper than boosting an m20. What are your experiences, e30 drift people.

just do the m50 swap run a zf tranny and a 4:10 and you'll have plenty of fun drifting with that 8-)

[5Toes]

zf + 4.10 is dumb

[hashi]

zf + 4.10 is dumb

I agree with that but it will give you enough ratio to drift without having alot of power a buddy of mine runs a s50 with a zf and a 3:73 and its insane i know a few people that have drifted m50s with zfs and 4:10s

[jlevie]

If you are looking for around 250hp, an S52 will be the cheapest option.

[I8UR911]

+1 for S52.....and even then you'll need additional mods if you're looking for 250 at the wheels. Plan on spending about $3k-$4k for your swap.

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[OrangeFiero]

The way im seeing it is for the money, boosting the m20 is the way to go. I WILL eventually do an m/s5x so im not looking for it to last long or be reliable. So i think i just realized that out of the three key aspects (cost, power, and reliability) I only need the first 2. Am i making sense? I have never owned a car with the same motor in it for more than 2 years... so i guess it makes sense to boost?

[pandaboo911]

stock s52 will make 210whp
turbo m20 will make easily twice that, but it'll also cost atleast twice as much as the s52 swap.

I would go with the s52

[OrangeFiero]

How will it cost more? I have it clocked at about 2k and thats getting as much as i can used but getting decent turbo and ms2... what am i missing with cost?

[bastianshaw]

OP dont take this the wrong way but you have at least 20 solid hrs of reading to do before asking questions like this

[kingston]

OrangeFiero,

What you are missing is the fact that you will also need to refresh and strengthen your M20, which is not inexpensive. My guess would be that it is pretty tired, and throwing boost at it will hasten it's early demise.

Plus, with boost, seems like a good idea to use the BEST parts you can, not the CHEAPEST parts. Chinese Ebay turbo shit is just that...shit. Also keep in mind that these things never go as smoothly as you think they will. There are ALWAYS things that pop up that you haven't factored into the cost...

Having said that, buying a used S52 may land you in the same boat. You never TRULY know what you are going to get, but if you are going to buy an S52/M50, etc, make sure at the VERY least that you have compression #s on the engine.

Good luck with your build!!

[dannyyisntt]

Clearly what your looking for is an m30 swap

[Northern]

Since he's looking for cheap, I'd say an M30 is definitely an option. M60 could be good there too.

[Vivek]

OrangeFiero,

What you are missing is the fact that you will also need to refresh and strengthen your M20, which is not inexpensive. My guess would be that it is pretty tired, and throwing boost at it will hasten it's early demise.

Plus, with boost, seems like a good idea to use the BEST parts you can, not the CHEAPEST parts. Chinese Ebay turbo shit is just that...shit. Also keep in mind that these things never go as smoothly as you think they will. There are ALWAYS things that pop up that you haven't factored into the cost...

Having said that, buying a used S52 may land you in the same boat. You never TRULY know what you are going to get, but if you are going to buy an S52/M50, etc, make sure at the VERY least that you have compression #s on the engine.

Good luck with your build!!

I have to admit, I don't know much about turbos. But I do know that KAmotors is pushing over 450whp on a completely stock m20 with a 22 year old head gasket. The only mods to that motor are head bolts, and he did them one by one without pulling the head. Basically, a turbo setup needs a turbo (anywhere from $100-1000, maybe $4-500 for a decent one), a waste gate and bov (lets say $200), a manifold (I've seen $80-800, maybe $250?) intercooler and piping ($300), engine management (like $250 for an RRFPR and up to $800 for MS), and then a wideband, gauges (boost, oil pressure), and some exhaust work. It can be done for under 2k depending on how you go about it. You can buy a full used setup that was proven on a car, with MS and even an exhaust for around 2 grand. That can put you at 400whp on a stock engine (although I'd shell out a few bills for a spare m20). I'm just naming prices based on what I've seen, but I think that at least saying that strengthening an m20 is absolutely necessary is not true, based on what KAmotors has done (something like 24-28psi, off the top of my head).

[kingston]

Vivek,

There may well be a few people who are rocking big HP numbers on a bone-stock engine, but throwing that much power at a motor without looking at some key areas is asking for trouble. For every KAmotors story, there are 10 from people who've popped their HG, or caused other significant failures. The OP had his car dyno'd at 137hp, suggesting that it is beginning to get tired.

CAN you make 400 hp on a stock motor? Yes. Will it last? Not unless you have built it very well and are very lucky. Do you have to strengthen the motor? Not if you don't mind having to rebuild it.

You said you'd save a few bills for a spare motor. Why not put that into maintenance on the M20? There are many ways to do this, but I'm a fan of doing things right the first time, and not having to swap out a motor because I didn't. Your mileage may vary!