George Graves and his volt meters

[txtorquemade]

Replied.

This is a preposterous answer to at least 13 people who have been waiting a year on a purchase, advertised on this forum, by someone affiliated WITH the forum. That this has not been addressed BY the forum in an appropriate manner is equally, preposterous.

GG needs to pay back anyone who asks for a refund, and be banned from the forum. Period.

[mach schnell]

This is a preposterous answer to at least 13 people who have been waiting a year on a purchase, advertised on this forum, by someone affiliated WITH the forum. That this has not been addressed BY the forum in an appropriate manner is equally, preposterous.

GG needs to pay back anyone who asks for a refund, and be banned from the forum. Period.

Other sellers have been banned for far less.

I bought a fake MarkD chip from a guy advertising a real one. He refunded me, and was banned.

[Van Westervelt]

Other sellers have been banned for far less.

I bought a fake MarkD chip from a guy advertising a real one. He refunded me, and was banned.

Those are vastly different scenarios.

[iamsam]

Those are vastly different scenarios.

I think the point was that this seller did send a refund, and was still banned. From what I am reading GG hasn't even sent a refund.

But hey, not my business, so I won't meddle further...

[ohthejosh]

I don't know about banning GG, he provides quality products for our old ass cars.

He is apparently having major issues at the moment with this current product and the details are sketch but to say ban him because the ~20 of you are currently in this fiasco seems unfair for the rest of the forum members that may be looking for other products from him.

I suggest that GG provide requested refunds and take the loss.

He isn't advertising fake products and selling them off as real as well. He didn't just flake out completely, its been a year yes, but the man regardless of how minute and unhelpful the response is, it is a response. Let the man figure it out and who knows maybe just maybe he will provide you with more than what you paid and waited for.

It is all up to the mods tho, whatever they see fit is fine with me as well.

GG if you start offering up refunds, please PM me as soon as spot opens. Ill take it

[gofredo50]

All we need is more communication. "Everyone will get what they ordered" is no longer enough.

Banning GG now will not get us any closer to solving this problem and would be a disservice to the community. GG has served customers well for many years. This is an unfortunate situation, but, from what I've seen, it is one of the few instances where buyers have had issues with GG's performance. I have no doubt it will be resolved and he'll be able to go on serving customers. If things can't be resolved, it would be up to board management to decide how to proceed.

If the mods and admins want to get involved with this, great. I appreciate their support and willingness to help. If they should decide not to, it is what it is. I've always looked at buying things on r3v with a heavy dose of "buyer beware". It is not up to the board to protect us, but it is certainly appreciated and stengethens the community.

If things turn around and we work this out I would be glad to order more products from GG (if he'll have me as a customer). As I said, I have no doubt things will work themselves out.

[george graves]

No problem. Let me be a bit more clear here - I hope that will be helpful.

First off, the few people that have order this one item from me, I own you an apology. this product is way past due. That's ultimately my fault. To those of you that have, I'm sorry about that.

Secondly, let me offer up some more information to help ease your mind. (But, with that said, I know anything I write will be picked apart, criticized, or otherwise. It's the internet. I know how things work.)

- If I was in a place to offer refunds, I would have and washed my hands of this months ago - and moved on to the next big thing on my list of awesome stuff. But - I'm not in a place that I can do that. Sorry.

- Yes, I do sell other things on other sites. Not these gauges. Nor have I taken any more orders for this type of gauge. I was selling a few things on mye28. It was old stuff from batches that I had in stock or just sitting around. I do other work, and make other types of things, and sell on other forums. I always have - always will.

- Yes, I stop selling on R3V. And even stopped my daily ritual of posting, chit-chatting and all the other fun stuff, because I didn't feel it was right to be enjoying a forum (that I consider my home - and enjoy immensely) while an product was past due. I thought it would be dis-respectful - for lack of a better word.

- Everyone will get exactly what they ordered. I was ready to start shipping a handful of these gauges a while ago, and pulled the plug at the last minuet when I wasn't happy with the finished product. Some other vendors ship half-assed things, but I just couldn't do it. It's not the way I work. There are others that are going to have a different opinion on that. But, that's how I roll.

- Yes, I have a full list of all the orders. No one will be left behind.

- There have been multiple problems with this item. I got a late start building the gauges. Another delay was that a key part that was easy to purchase, became unavailable for for purchase for something like 2-3 months. So I had to wait that out. And when it finally was available, I had to pay an exorbitant amount for them - and I didn't have the money for a while. Huge issues with led inconsistency, and a less then stellar supplier - even though I paid top dollar. The list goes on and on. It's been a learning lesson for sure. As a device gets, say, twice as complex, manufacturing that product, even on a small scale, increases 10 fold. I'm not using that as an excuse. But, people wanted to know.

- And there are "life" factors that came in as well. The last 3 months, I've been doing other types of work to make ends meet - and that took away any time I've had for this project. I'm not using that as an excuse. But, people wanted to know.

- No I don't have a shipping date. And most likely will start shipping them from the oldest order to the newest as I go. It may take several weeks to get all the orders out once I start shipping. I'm working on them this week - I may or may not have to redesign them and start from scratch. So there is no way I can give you a date. I'll be posting up when I'm starting to ship.

- Lastly, to all the supporters - thank you. And yes, I hope to be making even more cool things in the future.

gg

[EndreM]

I'm guessing George Graves doesn't make a living out of making small stuff for old cars, and that he does it for the community, which is something to admire.

I bought a temp sensor a long time ago, and it arrived very quickly. Props to him for making stuff that nobody else does. If it wasn't for him, the product wouldn't exist!

Some things are worth waiting for, and it's not like anybody really needs this. Everybody should calm down.

[gofredo50]

Thank you George. Speaking for myself, I feel much better about the situation given the information you have provided.

If we must continue to be patient, would it be possible for those of us waiting to get regular updates? With information like this it is much easier to understand the delay. I'm certainly not asking you to share 'life' info, but development updates would be helpful. Also, I'm sure no one would mind you enjoying r3v and selling on this and other forums as long as we feel in the loop.

In the meantime, best of luck with all you have on your plate. Please let me know if there is any thing I can do to be of help.

[Rigmaster]

I'm sorry George, but this is BULLSHIT.

You have their money, you need to find a way to start offering refunds to those who want, and ship products to those who have paid, not in a couple of weeks, but now.

You need to start selling your belongings on Ebay or CL or whatever, take out a Credit Card advance, sell plasma or sperm or whatever it takes to come up with the $$ to pay these people back.


Otherwise you're just another deadbeat.

[kwill22]

Cool. Yea I think if George just forward emailed you guys all the same message containing say, weekly updates on progress for the people that ordered the goods. Its an Unfortunate situation for both parties but glad he's working on it.

After all we are R3v, the best COMMUNITY. There's always tough love but when you need it there's always people ready to help.

[bmwstudent]

GG thanks for the update!

[ninjaotter]

Perhaps GG would consider releasing the plans for this neat little gauge as open source. It would let people source their own parts and build their own if they so desire.

[mach schnell]

I'm sorry George, but this is BULLSHIT.

You have their money, you need to find a way to start offering refunds to those who want, and ship products to those who have paid, not in a couple of weeks, but now.

You need to start selling your belongings on Ebay or CL or whatever, take out a Credit Card advance, sell plasma or sperm or whatever it takes to come up with the $$ to pay these people back.


Otherwise you're just another deadbeat.

Agreed. 100%.

[george graves]

Perhaps GG would consider releasing the plans for this neat little gauge as open source. It would let people source their own parts and build their own if they so desire.

Not on this item. The cost to get all the parts shipped to you from all the different suppliers would cost more than what little I'm charging. Some of the parts can't be bought as one's and two's - you have to buy in bulk. So it doesn't make much sense. But I'm considering a "kit" type product in the future if it's simple enough to assemble and doesn't require special jigs.