Help with Buying Decision

[EVLE30]

I'm pretty new around here, and I'm looking for some friendly advice from you E30 experts.:mrgreen:

I currently drive a modified 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X MR, and previous to that I had a 2007 Lotus Elise. I love my MR, and I'm enjoying the journey of modifying it. Although the twin-clutch automated manual transmission on it is amazing, I do miss rowing through the gears. When it comes to the Elise, I loved the super light-weight aspect of it and the handling advantages that come with that.

So here I am now..... I'd like to pick up a BMW E30 for the following reasons:

1. Light (compared to most modern cars)
2. RWD
3. Fun to drive
4. Has some potential for mild modification for occassional uses such as auto-cross, tracking, general shenanigans
5. A very cool and unique car with timeless good looks

So I'm looking at a 1987 325is that's in less-than-perfect shape (body wise and interior) but is pretty strong mechanically and has around 360,000 km (225,000 miles) on the odometer for around $1,500 CDN.

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1987-BMW-325is-W0QQAdIdZ416644115

The other option is a 1984 325e that is in excellent condition all-around with about 220,000 km (138,000 miles) on the odometer for around $3,700 CDN.

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1984-BMW-E30-3-Series-Coupe-325e-5-Spd-2-7L-6-Cylinder-W0QQAdIdZ478986969

Seems like the 325e is a good option based on its "ready-to-go-out-of-the-box" condition and the life left in the car. But I would like some spirited performance from the car, like what there would be in the 325is. Part of what attracts me to the 325is is the very low initial investment cost. When it comes to upgrades, I hate replacing perfectly good parts on a car with aftermarket upgraded parts, so I wouldn't feel as bad repalcing parts on the 325is as opposed to the 325e. Having driven both cars (a long time apart between the two test drives), I found the 325is to be more lively and engaging, and the 325e seemed solid and smooth. Are differences like that actually real and not just my imagination? Or in reality are the cars much closer to each other in overall behaviour, aside from the low-end torque grunt of the "e" and the higher-revving happiness of the "is"?

I'm not looking to build a high-performance track monster. I just want something that will be a fun daily driver that has some moderate performance modification potential. Thoughts, anyone?

[shameson]

Personally I'm leaning with the eta. While its a little more money, the body being in better condition is a definite plus. And you can always talk him down. If your willing to put in extra time/money for body work and paint, the "is" might be a better choice since they are more valued over the e. The eta motors stock aren't bad, but it having all the power in the low end it doesn't have much performance wise. You can turn the b27 motor in the eta into a 2.7 L stroker with some mods too. The b25 though is more rev happy but only has about another 40hp advantage over the eta motor.

If you plan on doing an engine swap, the eta will be a better host.

[e30Villain]

I drive a 325e and it's a fun daily. Although it is my only car so i have huge cravings for speed, hence why i am considering buying an e36 m3 on the side. I think if you're going to use the eta as a Daily, it'll be good enough. I have fun throwing mine around every once in a while, and they sure can take a beating. I have a buddy who has an evo8 and he daily's an e21 320i ( slower than my eta ) and he has plenty of fun driving it.

[EVLE30]

Thanks for the input so far.

I think I'm feeling that the "e" might be the way to go too. It may not be a performance model like the "is", but I'm not looking for balls-out performance anyways, as that's what my Evo is for. So even if the "e" remains a pleasant but fun car to drive, then that may be the way to go. Especially for an "e" that's been incredibly maintained (the service records are impeccable) which gives me confidence that I will be able to use it for many years to come, as it is, with minimal repairs required. Whereas I see the "is" with its much higher mileage and signs of neglect as being a more likely candidate for repairs.

Also, I do like the fact that the 1984 325e has a curbweight of 2650 lbs, versus 2850 lbs for a 1987 325is, according to the data I've been able to find on-line. Weight is the enemy of handling, if you ask me.

Any other thoughts, anyone?

[straightsixe30]

If you buy the cheaper one you're going to pay more on maintenance before you can even start modifying it. I say get the better condition one. Also you can always do a head swap and some tuning and make a 325e a 2.7 stroker.

[coldweatherblue]

hey I've owned 2 late model 325i's but I gotta go with the 'e' on this one.. the 'is' has some serious body issues and really isn't a car you want to be spending money on unless you're planning on some MAJOR rust work. The 'e' seems a good foundation on which you can build. Easier to swap a head, tuck the bumpers, and mess with the fuel system/ecu to get power in the 'e' than worry about fixing that type of rust.

[EVLE30]

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

I wasn't aware that body rust was such a common issue with the late model 325is.

I was thinking that having a higher displacement 2.7L engine in the "e" would make for a better starting point than the 2.5L in the "is".

For those of you have mentioned the 2.7 stroker..... what exactly are you guys referring to? Are you talking about increasing the displacement of the b27 by increasing the stroke length? How would that impact the relatively low rev limit of the "e"?

[shameson]

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

I wasn't aware that body rust was such a common issue with the late model 325is.

The '87 is still an early car, since it has diving boards. Late cars were produced with plastic bumpers.

But it really depends on location. From what I know, Calgary is a bit drier so I don't know if roads there are salted or not. E30s from areas that get a lot of snow and have salted roads often have troubles with rust (i.e. New England). It's important to find one without rust, as that's a must. If you have salted roads there are good DIY for preventive car for e30s on here.

Luckily, in the PNW the roads are almost never salted in most areas so our e30s stay relatively rust free :p

[EVLE30]

In Calgary, the roads are are actually sprayed with small pea gravel, with only a bit of salt mixed in with it. So that helps with rust (compared to some other areas of Canada), but the rocks are brutal for chipped windshields and front end paint damage. Oh well.

[EVLE30]

So it looks like the 325e is everyone's recommendation so far.

Anyone else with thoughts?

[3vilE30]

Find a super eta best of both worlds :)

[EVLE30]

Find a super eta best of both worlds :)

Haven't found one yet..... not locally or within my region of Canada, anyways. But thanks for the idea!

[kingston]

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

For those of you have mentioned the 2.7 stroker..... what exactly are you guys referring to? Are you talking about increasing the displacement of the b27 by increasing the stroke length? How would that impact the relatively low rev limit of the "e"?

The early model 325e is not a great candidate for the 'stroker' engine, as you will end up with a very low compression ratio. If you could find an `88 325e (which has the SETA, or "Super ETA" motor), you'd have a much better starting point. Now,if you wanted to add boost, then the early model ETA motor cars are a VERY good candidate for the stroker engine.

Basically, you are using the entire bottom end from an 'e' model car, combined with the head, intake manifold, ECU, ICV, some vacuum hoses and maybe a few other little parts from an 'i' model engine. The 'i' model intake is much more free-flowing, and the head has a more aggressive cam, more oil passages and different springs (IIRC) than the 'e' model head.

I sold my SETA motor to a fellow R3Ver, who did the 327i 'stroker' engine, and had it dyno'd. He put out 191hp. Not bad! Again, this was with the 1-model-year-only `88 325 SETA motor...

Hope that helps!

[EVLE30]

^ Thanks for the info! It's greatly appreciated. :up:

And excuse my ignorance, but what makes the SETA engine a better candidate for the 2.7L stroker kit compared to the earlier model year non-SETA engine?

[3vilE30]

Here I go correct me if I'm mistaken on any parts.
325e pre 1988 m20b27 head casting #200 had a different head the smallest combustion chamber size, someone correct me if I'm wrong but the eta head had less cam journals? Eta's have 4 bearing cams. More restrictive afm, intake manifold, throttle body and ran a basic version of motronic 1.0. Smaller valves, single valve springs, less aggressive cams lower red line about 4.8k, Long diff gears basically in its stock form its a freeway car/DD. If you wanted to make power with the eta you would eventually have to swap in an I head due to having less cam journals and small combustion chamber. So essentially when doing a swap from an eta you need an I: head with dual valve springs, cam, throttle body, intake manifold, afm, ecu, wiring harness, pistons, fuel injection system I might be missing a few things but you get the idea. Oh eta pistons are flat topped and the I head is more "spherical" so the eta pistons wont work you either need super eta pistons or I pistons with 2-3mm shaved off the top

From the super eta stand point well super eta's already have the I head just not dual valve spring'd or I cam'd or the I throttle body but the intake manifold is flow matched to the I head with longer runners for torque.
For the super eta all you need is dual valve springs a better cam maybe an I afm/intake manifold, an I throttle body and and I ecu for the redline you can use the stock super eta pistons because they're made for the 885 I head but with lower compression ratio 8.5:1.
I'm eventually going to rebuild my head with better valve springs, throw in a better cam get the I ecu and throttle body and boost it. The compression ratio is more than ideal for boost :mrgreen:
I have a Super ETA by the way :)