'Ring Weapon of Choice?

[Berkut]

To have a used car with 20 odd years that's reliable on track is pure luck.

So just get what you want the most and be done with it. Go out and drive them before buying, decide then.

A 2002 for the price of a 205, 306 or Sprint will most likely be a dog though.

[MikeLenoch5]

Also, while I'm just about set on a Peugeot 205, 106 or 306 (or maybe, just maybe an Alfa), a Bimmerforums user wrote the following on my thread there:

"Hm,I never heard a peugeot,Renault or Alfa owner to say it is unreliable.My experience as a many years mechanic in Europe leads me to believe quite the opposite.If you get an example with up-to date maintenance and you have some luck on your side you may not have to live in the shop.But those cars could be a landslide.After working on most 90s french or italian cars,and knowing the FWD,I just cant believe you can go and track regularly one of those without braking every lap or two.There are so many thing (mostly related to the FWD) that brake from everyday [gentle] driving,so I can only imagine the mess if you start to track the car on the stock parts.Probably after dumping some small fortune the car would be suitable for the track and [relatively] reliable,but I am not sure it will be pleasure to DD.
Of course all of the above is valid for a RWD,E36 M3 in that case,but it is at least something you know after owning one for the time being.Also the DD/track setup will be much more forgiving than in a FWD."
Just my .02"

An attempt to get me back to the Bimmer dark side, yet again, or a genuine concern?

If I had to get a BMW in Germany, it would be a 2002. Not sure how reliable M10s (or whatever they are) are.

[MikeLenoch5]

The 306 isn't a bad choice, as long as it's an S16, GTI-6, or Rallye. I've never personally driven one, but by all accounts they are the last Peugeot that handles like a Peugeot should.

Then again, you're now talking about cars from the mid-'90s that you're never going to be able to federalize. Iconic hot-hatches like the Clio Williams and legendary track beasts like the Lancer Evolution II, III, V, and VI would be higher up on my list. Check out the UK Lancer Register. You'll be shocked at how affordable a first-gen (Evo I-III) or second-gen (Evo IV-VI) Lancer is these days.

It's possible, but it's likely to be so expensive that it's not worth it. If you import something that's substantially similar to a car already sold in the USA (e.g., BMW 320is with S14B20) it's not as bad as if you want to bring in a chassis that we never got here (e.g., R34 Skyline GT-R, Peugeot 306).

Unless you want to spend your entire time in Germany buying and selling cars, just buy a 25-year-old car and enjoy it. Get something iconic and cool. Get something with excellent OEM parts availability and a strong aftermarket support network. Get something with a small, but potent, engine that doesn't cost a ton to rebuild and can be easily swapped. Get something that's proven to be robust and reliable on the street and track.

All signs point to the 205 GTI 1.6

A good GTI or Rallye will only appreciate in value. And you'll love driving it. There's a reason why people rave about these cars.

AGREED. As I like to say, "the fewer cars you buy in your life, the easier it will be."

[Emre]

I'm in the process of talking to Mike Solo...He recommends I get a UK Peugeot 306 GTI-6 or a RenaultSport Clio 172/182/197

The 306 isn't a bad choice, as long as it's an S16, GTI-6, or Rallye. I've never personally driven one, but by all accounts they are the last Peugeot that handles like a Peugeot should.

Then again, you're now talking about cars from the mid-'90s that you're never going to be able to federalize. Iconic hot-hatches like the Clio Williams and legendary track beasts like the Lancer Evolution II, III, V, and VI would be higher up on my list. Check out the UK Lancer Register. You'll be shocked at how affordable a first-gen (Evo I-III) or second-gen (Evo IV-VI) Lancer is these days.

say I was to import a car that is younger than 25 years. Is that possible? Would that require I make modifications? I'm guessing it'd be more expensive than it would be worth my while, but learn me!

It's possible, but it's likely to be so expensive that it's not worth it. If you import something that's substantially similar to a car already sold in the USA (e.g., BMW 320is with S14B20) it's not as bad as if you want to bring in a chassis that we never got here (e.g., R34 Skyline GT-R, Peugeot 306).

Unless you want to spend your entire time in Germany buying and selling cars, just buy a 25-year-old car and enjoy it. Get something iconic and cool. Get something with excellent OEM parts availability and a strong aftermarket support network. Get something with a small, but potent, engine that doesn't cost a ton to rebuild and can be easily swapped. Get something that's proven to be robust and reliable on the street and track.

All signs point to the 205 GTI 1.6

A good GTI or Rallye will only appreciate in value. And you'll love driving it. There's a reason why people rave about these cars.

[milo1303s]

Renault Clio Sports. BANG!!!!

[TobyB]

I'd find a low- displacement or diesel E46. Fun enough, and economical when I got home.

Because let's face it, it's an old car in Europe. E36 and 30 are ancient.

t

[einhander]

Mazda MX-5
Nissan 200SX


If not that then listen to Eric because everyone's else had rubbish suggestions as usual.

[tttoon]

I just moved back to Europe from 2.5 years in AZ and have bought a Clio 172 phase 1. Great great car, super light and with 170ish horsepower (depends on how you measure) and a good deal of torque it definitely moves. The front end in the dry is pretty amazing, I'd never have thought a FWD car could be so much fun. Couldn't be happier really, even if the interior is not exactly in the same class as my old M Coupe.

edit: it's hard not to turn every drive into a rally special stage

[MikeLenoch5]

I was just about set on a Peugeot 106 or 306 then ironically, a French friend of mine (who's been on the 'Ring a number of times) recommended an Alfa Romeo Alfasud. Any thoughts on that?

I'm guessing a 1970s Italian car is a dead giveaway to stay far away, but he was ecstatic when talking about it. I've done a tiny bit of research on the Alfasud, and everyone who's driven one seemed to have fallen in love with it.

What if I find a rust-free to near-rust-free example? Worth it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu4FGsJAJ-c

[MikeLenoch5]

you need an AWD Opel Calibra. 215hp turbo 4 cyl. and kinda look cool to. It was the "German" Camaro in the 80s-90s

Sowie das?

http://www.autoscout24.de/Details.aspx?id=231216566&cd=635019197970000000&asrc=fa|fs

Es sieht eigentlich cool aus...

[mikeedler]

you need an AWD Opel Calibra. 215hp turbo 4 cyl. and kinda look cool to. It was the "German" Camaro in the 80s-90s

[MikeLenoch5]

This is what Caswell is talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF0CUaS0czk

Very cool story. I wish more companies would turn their engineer's side projects into legitimate products.

Lots of good stuff on your list. I think I'd go for the Clio. Please keep us updated when you go drive these.

Wow, that is sweet!

Oh I will keep you very much in the loop!

[word is bond]

This is what Caswell is talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF0CUaS0czk

Very cool story. I wish more companies would turn their engineer's side projects into legitimate products.

Lots of good stuff on your list. I think I'd go for the Clio. Please keep us updated when you go drive these.

[MikeLenoch5]

In case anyone's interested...

At the moment these are my current top choices:

- E36 M3
- Peugot 306 GTI
- Volkswagen Corrado VR6
- Renault Clio
- Ford Mondeo ST220

Bill Caswell said to me about E30 Tourings, "they are cool. But not that cool. Better is the story of the engineer who designed and built it!" I wonder what he's on about...?

[Berkut]

I feel the 318is's are the best value for money on the ring, you'll be able to get a relatively cheap prepared one, for V2 class, VLN/RCN racing one.
You can drive it on TF and race it on RCN/GLP. In the weekend you'll have one of the slower cars around, and going up the hill you better catch up on some reading but for most of the circuit it's brilliant fun when set up right.
Possible to get it down to 8:30 or less if driven right, it's all about momentum.

From your budget you'd manage to get a daily as well :p

The 1 series diesel is actually not bad, there was one that was constantly lapping, and lapping fast, harassing M3's. You NEED suspension and a proper diff on it though to be fun and in the end it'll still be a diesel.