Will have to call around to see what the deal is in my area then stock up. Thanks for the heads up Op
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Interesting. What kind of spring pressures are you running requiring such substantial amounts of ZDDP (which, really, if you 'knew anything about oils' you'd already know whats on the VOA's I've posted below) that an HDEO that also more than likely has better base stocks than dino VR-1? The Syn HDEO's flow very well, and they're extremely shear stable. They have >1200 PPM zinc, as significantly more phosphorus. The T6 also has a higher starting TBN, and moly, which the VR1 does not have. Where do these delusions of VR1's 'superiority' come from? Because it says 'Racing'??
I'm not trying to say the VR1 is a bad oil at all, but I just don't see the point. Especially in a 20W-50, in the wintertime (check your owners manual - 20W-50 isn't recommended for cold temps, even back then). Very, very few engines 'need' synthetic oil, but there are certainly advantages. On a track car, quality synth base stocks ( group 4+), as you know, will be much more shear resistent. From what I've read, VR1 is strictly Grp II base stoks, not Grp III or hydrocracked Grp III (what is allowed to be called synthetic in the US). They also provide the ability for extended drains if you so choose, as well as better protection aaginst the formation of deposits. We have to also remember that oils have advanced significantly since M20's were first designed. I ran T6 in my M20 when I owned it and never had any issues. If you're stocking up for summertime, then sure, go for it, but $3.99/qt. isn't a stock-up price IMO.
As far as my personaly vehicles - I run a variety of oils, depending on whats on sale. Currently, in my m52b28 in my '95 328ti (daily driver, 95% highway miles, see's 1-2 ax events a year, no track time on this car), I'm running maxlife NextGen 10W-40 in the summertime, and Castrol Edge 0W-40 in the winter. The Maxlife is a syn blend with a fantastic additive pack, and was on clearance at O'Reilly for $1.99/qt. I grabbed ~ 50 quarts. The Edge was B1G1 at Advance awhile back, so ~$4.50/qt. I ran mostly T6 in my m20 E30, because it saw more track & autox use than anything else. Oh, and you should see the disgusting tips of the 4-prong'd Bosch Plat's I pulled from my '84 533i. I run NGK V-Powers in nearly everything.
This finished it for me though, lol. That definitely has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. So mrsleeve - why don't YOU learn something about oils before spouting off.Last edited by kendogg; 11-26-2013, 02:47 PM.Comment
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OIL WAR!!!!
I like to run Mobil1 15W-50. It has a decent amount of ZDDP. Zinc is 1300 ppm vs the 1400 ppm of VR1.
Also, it's an M20. You remember the million mile M20B25? It was run on Mobil1 5W-30, an oil we all now universally like to hate on. The formula likely changed over the years, but the camshafts didn't digest themselves, either.
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Thank you. Look, I'm NOT trying to create a pissing match about oil, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Oil is a funny subject, one that people take very personally. I'm not sure why I was insulted for posting factual information, but whatev's. VR! IS a good oil - I just don't get the obsession with it, IMO at least it's a slightly below average price for a slightly above average oil.
And yes, m1 has been 'watered down' many times over the years. M1 0W-40 is actually the highest quality M1 that is commercially available right now, with 15W-50 not far behind, and I love to hate on M1 (reasonably - I'm sure some of their top end oils can be bought somewhere, but....). It's an oil that was developed WITH Porsche, specifically for Porsche's, and is now a very common oil. Some guys are running it with successful UOA's in E92 M3's that call for TWS even. Great additive pack, great base stocks, and very, very shear stable.Last edited by kendogg; 11-26-2013, 03:05 PM.Comment
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VR1 goes in my 911, $50.00 oil change even at 3.99 ! Yikes.Lorin
Originally posted by slammin.e28Comment
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0-40 and 15-50 are for two different applications. 0-40 is meant to meet modern oil requirements, 15-50 is meant designed for sliding valve trains, not sure one is "better" than the other.
Anything over 1200 is adequate for the m20.Comment
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0-40 and 15-50 are for two different applications. 0-40 is meant to meet modern oil requirements, 15-50 is meant designed for sliding valve trains, not sure one is "better" than the other.
Anything over 1200 is adequate for the m20.
I agree, and I wasn't trying to infer that the 0W-40 is a good choice for an M20, I was using it as reference. I guess I should have expanded further on that. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 0W-40 though in many applications, including 'boosted' applications as the product guide states for the 15W-50.Comment
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Seems odd some are finding it not on sale as porsche forum people all over the country are getting it @ 3.99.
As mentioned in the first post, it is Not Advertised and when the bottle is scanned it shows a different price in the computer. The guy at my local was a little confused at first.Lorin
Originally posted by slammin.e28Comment
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Ken
lets see here I am going to go purely from memory here
m10-m20-M30 series engines are Flat tappet running something like 180Psi of Nose pressure. OEM spec Engine oil was Castrol GTX and in 1988 has on the order of 1100-1200 PPM of ZZDP, Vr1 1750PPM. The old school SOHC BMW engines oil pumps Oil Galleries are sized for and returns are all sized for CONVENTIONAL flow rates and characteristics.
M20's leak enough as is, you start running high detergent CJ-4 spec your liable to start washing deposits away that are built up against seals that have been in there for the last 20 years helping keep lube in.
Look modern CJ-4 oils are great from modern ERG engines with the high tension high detergent formulations are great for that.
Will what your running work, Yup sure will, is it quality product, for the most part yes, though I am not a fan of Shell or Chevron stuff for my personal stuff, it will get the job done fine. When you have a product that costs about the same or a little bit more that is more appropriate for application your using it for, then thats what I think I will go with.
Fred yes when Mobil 1 first stated the Syn thing it was group 4 base, now its group 3, so yes the formulation has changed.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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I was at O'Reily the other day and was looking at it also. I was going to get it until I saw a label on the back of the bottle "not recommended for car with catylic converter"Comment
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Also to add, the guy at O'Reily told me they are on sale because a new version of the vr1 is going on the shelf and need to get rid of the old vr1.Comment
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gonna have to check around for VR1 now its been getting harder to find around me, but i love it for m20s sure there is better oil (Brad Penn) but for the price VR1 is hard to beat.Comment
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