What's with this ABS fuss?

[Roysneon]

Ironic that all those systems actually keep the driver in control of their car isnt it. Crazy engineers refining and developing those technologies in F1 to help out those third rate drivers. Dont they know us real world drivers have no use for that shit.

Its nice cars have these features to help keep all the gifted real world drivers from crashing into the rest of us.

This.

[P Arkus]

I consider myself a good driver in my daily commute to work and back, and occasionally on a small cruise. I'm no F1 driver, nor do I aspire to be one on the streets. All these gimmicks are pointless to me as I've been driving for well over 10 years now, and I can honestly say that ABS, traction control, or an automatic transmission have NEVER saved me in a bad situation. I might also add that in that 10+ years of driving i'm accident free and have never crashed a car.

F1 driving is definitely an art and a skillset that is admirable. Common street driving is not an art and is also not that difficult to grasp. I dont care what the "reasoning" behind all these gimmicks are, I dont need them. If I ever get into an accident and crash my car, i'll be man enough to admit that it was driver error, not because my car was missing a vital feature

[matthugie]

I consider myself a good driver in my daily commute to work and back, and occasionally on a small cruise. I'm no F1 driver, nor do I aspire to be one on the streets. All these gimmicks are pointless to me as I've been driving for well over 10 years now, and I can honestly say that ABS, traction control, or an automatic transmission have NEVER saved me in a bad situation. I might also add that in that 10+ years of driving i'm accident free and have never crashed a car.

F1 driving is definitely an art and a skillset that is admirable. Common street driving is not an art and is also not that difficult to grasp. I dont care what the "reasoning" behind all these gimmicks are, I dont need them. If I ever get into an accident and crash my car, i'll be man enough to admit that it was driver error, not because my car was missing a vital feature

Gimmicks? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[P Arkus]

Probably not lol but it still works in what i'm trying to say...

gim·mick (gmk)
n.
1.
a. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.

b. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget.

2.
a. An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project: an advertising gimmick.

b. A significant feature that is obscured, misrepresented, or not readily evident; a catch.

3. A small object whose name does not come readily to mind.

tr.v.gim·micked, gim·mick·ing, gim·micks
1. To add gimmicks to; clutter with gadgets or attention-getting details. Often used with up.

2. To change or affect by means of a gimmick.

Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gimmick

[agent]

Guys. GUYS. He has a over a FULL DECADE of commuter driving experience. All these "gimmicks" and "technological advancements" are clearly beneath someone with that level of proficiency.

[P Arkus]

I'm not really here to argue, brag, talk sh!t, whatever you wanna call it. OP asked whats the fuss about ABS, I was expressing my opinion on how I find it pointless for my driving. Yes I clearly understand a decade of driving is nothing to brag about, but there are people out there that cant go 6 months without an accident on dry summer roads.

So the fact is, I dont care for all the electronics in the car. Would I even take them out? No, way too much work. Would I choose them if they came as an option on the car? No, dont like them, dont feel I need them. Again, if I get into an accident, it will be due to driver error, not a mechanism missing from my car. We can all get into a pissing match and talk about great driving and all that crap, but on the streets, "great driving" isnt needed. Focus, attention, and common sense are needed. Perhaps people should focus on those 3 aspects rather than the technological ones

[Roysneon]

And fuck seat belts while you're at it.

Also, the definition of a gimmick you bolded above to liken it to vehicular safety components used the word "contrivance". That is not applicable when a problem is identified and a solution is developed.

[Victell]

All these gimmicks are pointless to me as I've been driving for well over 10 years now, and I can honestly say that ABS, traction control, or an automatic transmission have NEVER saved me in a bad situation. I might also add that in that 10+ years of driving i'm accident free and have never crashed a car.

Got a pretty bad case of normalcy bias there.

[P Arkus]

Hahaha alright well i'm done beating a dead horse here. Those of you who admire the technological advancements in car, enjoy your driving experience. Those of you who enjoy the older less technologically advanced cars, enjoy your driving experience. However you drive and whatever you use to assist you, everybody stay safe:)

[gtdragon980]

The E46 system is fantastic (specifically the MK60 setup). If you look into it, people from all sorts of different car makes and models swap it into their cars. Guys with high end Porsche race cars junk their stock systems for the M3 ABS. Could just as easily do the same thing on an E30, but it's not a small task since the E30 is only 3 channel. :(

Holy crap, the e46 ABS almost made me slam my face into the steering wheel if it wasn't for my seatbelt. When the ABS kicked in, I felt the pedal drop to the floor and the brakes went full power. It was almost oversensitive. I have never experienced stopping that fast, but then again, my only other car is an e30.


I would consider myself to be pretty good at threshold braking, even though I don't have any experience using it on a track. I know I know...shame on me. Even then, in a panic situation, I have found myself to instinctively slam those brakes. That is why abs is great.

[AndrewBird]

How does ABS provide a shorter stopping distance in slick conditions? I'm not arguing, I really don't know how it does it.

I've driven in the snow my whole life (took my drivers test in it) and in my MG with no ABS, I've never slid into an intersection due to slippery conditions. Slid up to a stop, but still stopped before entering the intersection. Yet in SEVERAL ABS equipped cars, I've rolled into intersections because the ABS kicked in and reduced braking and the car just kept going. Yeah, I didn't lose the ability to steer, but in this type of situation, I wouldn't want to anyway (other then avoiding another car because the ABS forced me into the intersection).

I guess all I'm saying is in my (limited) experience, ABS has not helped me yet, but has put me in several dangerous situations out of my control.

I also realize though that comparing two different instances is pretty much pointless as conditions differ. The times the ABS engage might have been slippery enough that without ABS I would have slid into the intersection or vise versa with the ABS not engaging and me stopping as if I didn't have ABS.

So what is the science behind it shortening stopping distance? To an uneducated eye (me) it seems like a tire not rolling, dragging across a slippery surface would have more friction than a wheel that is rolling and being slowed down. I'm guess this is not the case?

[nando]

No. Static friction is much stronger. When something slips, the coefficient of friction drops way off.

[Bearmw]

The ABS debate has finally ended once and for all.

[cwatt]

How does ABS provide a shorter stopping distance in slick conditions? I'm not arguing, I really don't know how it does it.

I've driven in the snow my whole life (took my drivers test in it) and in my MG with no ABS, I've never slid into an intersection due to slippery conditions. Slid up to a stop, but still stopped before entering the intersection. Yet in SEVERAL ABS equipped cars, I've rolled into intersections because the ABS kicked in and reduced braking and the car just kept going. Yeah, I didn't lose the ability to steer, but in this type of situation, I wouldn't want to anyway (other then avoiding another car because the ABS forced me into the intersection).

I guess all I'm saying is in my (limited) experience, ABS has not helped me yet, but has put me in several dangerous situations out of my control.

I also realize though that comparing two different instances is pretty much pointless as conditions differ. The times the ABS engage might have been slippery enough that without ABS I would have slid into the intersection or vise versa with the ABS not engaging and me stopping as if I didn't have ABS.

So what is the science behind it shortening stopping distance? To an uneducated eye (me) it seems like a tire not rolling, dragging across a slippery surface would have more friction than a wheel that is rolling and being slowed down. I'm guess this is not the case?

I know what you're saying. I'm visiting family at the moment and driving a new Jeep product. I was pulling up to the mailbox where the side of the road had been poorly plowed. As soon as the right two tires got on the ice, the ABS unit kicked in, and regardless of how hard I pushed the pedal, braking force was cut to the other two (left) tires on dry pavement, significantly increasing my stopping distance well past the mailbox. Probably a good 1.5 car lengths. Sure, without ABS the two right tires may have locked up, but the left would have grabbed right in.

The ABS debate has finally ended once and for all.

I don't know if it'll ever end. What I do find interesting is that people aren't necessarily opposed to ABS, but the general consensus is for it to be more aggressive. I'll be the first to say ABS can be a life-saver on wet roads, mid-turn. I'll also promote its ability to maintain steering while applying brake pressure. I will however speak to my personal experiences with systems that have created problems rather than preventing them.

[ButtJuice]

ABS brakes has saved both of my e30s from being totaled. I don't need any other reason to value abs.