What's with this ABS fuss?

[P Arkus]

Fair enough. Maybe useless is the wrong choice of words, however I was 100% happier in my cars that did not have ABS, especially in icy conditions. Would I delete it in my car, probably not. But thats mainly because it doesnt kick in often enough when I drive for it to bother me THAT much (except on ice lol).

[TobyB]

ABS can only help.

ABS is a great safety net

Having had an E30 with it, and currently having an E36 and E46 with it,

it got a lot better. The E30 version was pretty primitive in its feel and behavior.
When we started making Pro3 cars out of E30s, there were a few fault modes
(especially in spins and rough asphalt) that were downright dangerous.

The E36 doesn't do that so much, and the E46 is uncannily good.

I'd STILL leave it in a street- only E30. It's an aid, not a crutch, 99% of the time.

And if I DID take it out of a street E30, I'd swap to the '87 non- abs setup.
Because if you just disable the pump, you leave significant braking potential unavailable....

t

[BlackbirdM3]

My M3 is the first car I've owned with power steering, brakes and or abs. When I bought it, the abs didn't work (blown fuse under the dash) It was actually hard to stop because the pedal feel is soft and feeling where the braking threshold was was darn near impossible. (I still hate the feel of the brake pedal in the car, just too darn soft, will do the bigger mc at some point) Once I fixed the abs, the car was easier to drive, and the only time I actually got the abs to kick on was trail braking in a corner autoXing after missing a braking point. With good tires and good pads, the thing never kicks on unless I really really try to get it to work, or I'm racing the car.

Do I need abs? Nope, none of my cars before the M3 had it. I've never once had an issue in the rain. Was driving the M3 without it an issue? Yes. Would I pull a working system out of the car because I could? Nope, not worth the effort.

Will

[JinormusJ]

I fixed my ABS after the light annoyed the crap out of me for the last time. To be completely honest, I will never again drive an e30 that was factory equipped with ABS with it deleted/not working.

As others have previously stated, you are not 100% on-your-toes driving 100% of the time; rain, snow, kids chasing stuff into the street, random spook: ABS is a safety net, and it's there for a reason


If I didn't have ABS in my crash... Well.. I'd rather not think about that

[Raxe]

My E30 didn't come with it, but given the choice I would probably have it in good working order. A couple occasions come to mind where I've panicked, stomped on the pedal and locked 'em up even though I know better.

[volvolover]

ABS screws with doriftoing mang. Ask any 240 driver.

ABS is da debil.

+1 we Volvo 240 owners really dislike it.

[LivingLegend06]

I got into an accident in my FC that would have easily been avoided if the car had working ABS. I don't see any value to not having ABS. My current E30 does not have working ABS and it will definitely be fixed when I get the time.

[Hooffenstein HD]

Never owned a car with ABS. Probably never will.

[Victell]

ABS saved my car and possibly me from injury.

I was almost to the south end of the 210 freeway in the rain, coming around a right hand sweeper in the rightmost lane (no shoulder). There was a car stalled in my lane and there were cars to the left of me. I had nowhere to go. The only thing I could do is slam the brakes and hold on. The ABS did its magic and not only stopped short of the car, but allowed me to steer the sweeper and stay in my lane at the same time. No smash, no spin, no drama.

Not only does ABS stop quicker than any human could (which is why F1 banned it) but more importantly it allows you to steer at the same time.

[nando]

One of my favourite vehicles I've ever owned was a 2000 Ford Focus ZX3. Because Ford targeted it toward its enthusiast demographic, it didn't have a single driver aid nor anything electric (aside from the door locks, which didn't work properly anyway). It was simple - 5-spd manual, no traction control, no limited slip, and no ABS.

I can't tell you how much about driving I learnt in that car, yet in the years I owned it (and kept it stock!), I never once felt like I needed ABS.

Since joining R3V though, for every one person I see talk about deleting their ABS, there seems to be three talking about flat-spotting tires or avoiding rain or snow. I'm fairly sure all the e30s I've owned haven't had operational ABS as it is (lol), so what am I missing? What's all the fuss about?


- Colin

can you threshold brake independently for each individual wheel's limit of adhesion? Can you continue to steer the car while maximizing braking force, potentially on a slick surface like a wet road?

No?

Didn't think so.

[nando]

Having had an E30 with it, and currently having an E36 and E46 with it,

it got a lot better. The E30 version was pretty primitive in its feel and behavior.
When we started making Pro3 cars out of E30s, there were a few fault modes
(especially in spins and rough asphalt) that were downright dangerous.

The E36 doesn't do that so much, and the E46 is uncannily good.

I'd STILL leave it in a street- only E30. It's an aid, not a crutch, 99% of the time.

And if I DID take it out of a street E30, I'd swap to the '87 non- abs setup.
Because if you just disable the pump, you leave significant braking potential unavailable....

t

The E46 system is fantastic (specifically the MK60 setup). If you look into it, people from all sorts of different car makes and models swap it into their cars. Guys with high end Porsche race cars junk their stock systems for the M3 ABS. Could just as easily do the same thing on an E30, but it's not a small task since the E30 is only 3 channel. :(

[cwatt]

+1 we Volvo 240 owners really dislike it.

I own a current Toyota product where the ABS nearly caused me to crash. It is a VERY invasive system and universally hated. For me, I was on a 55mph/90kmh road approaching a traffic light where they had removed the top layer of paving. When the vehicle entered the milled road-surface, the ABS kicked in. I had to pull the e-brake. Not fun at that speed.

The E46 system is fantastic (specifically the MK60 setup). If you look into it, people from all sorts of different car makes and models swap it into their cars. Guys with high end Porsche race cars junk their stock systems for the M3 ABS. Could just as easily do the same thing on an E30, but it's not a small task since the E30 is only 3 channel. :(

Are we talking a software or hardware bottleneck here? For those of us going S54, does the MSS54 offer this ability?

[nando]

MSS54 controls the engine, so no. But it does integrate with the MK60 M3 ABS setup of course.

it's just a matter of redoing the hard lines, mounting a different pump, and wiring all the ABS sensors (plus making the wheel speed sensors fit into the E30 holes). if you're good I'd bet you could do it for under $1k. I've seen people say $10k but they're just paying a shop to do everything.

[Victell]

Also, the reason the Focus didn't have ABS is because its an economy car.

[naplesE30]

I will say however that I am one of the people that hates the automated systems in cars. I hate automatics, I hate traction controls, I hate ABS, and all the other driving features that take control away from the driver. Maybe because I learned to drive cars that didnt have these features so I learned how to control them in bad situations without needing the computer to take over for me.

Ironic that all those systems actually keep the driver in control of their car isnt it. Crazy engineers refining and developing those technologies in F1 to help out those third rate drivers. Dont they know us real world drivers have no use for that shit.

Its nice cars have these features to help keep all the gifted real world drivers from crashing into the rest of us.