Mercedes F1 engine separates the turbo compressor and turbine.

[LJ851]

I think this is a brilliant idea, discuss ?

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/9243875/revealed-how-mercedes-packaging-of-their-turbo-engine-has-given-them-the-edge

[DER E30]

I've wondered why this isn't a thing, but supposed that making the ultra high rpm shaft longer would introduce more problems than it's worth...keeping it straight with vibration etc.

[LJ851]

I agree, the shaft connecting the two sides would be the biggest challenge. If this can be made to work reliably it would make a conventional turbocharger sound like a ridiculous idea with it's superheated air.

[Raxe]

That's pretty fantastic. This year has some of the best engineering to ever come out of Formula 1.

[DER E30]

I agree, the shaft connecting the two sides would be the biggest challenge. If this can be made to work reliably it would make a conventional turbocharger sound like a ridiculous idea with it's superheated air.

I wonder if they made it rather like a roots type blower with both the turbine and compressor mounted solidly on either end of the block, perhaps even in the v of the engine... They could even make the shaft go through the block and pick up oil for the bearings and such, like a cam. If they design the whole motor from scratch, then it would be easy to make the turbo integral to the block... Could probably do away with headers I'd imagine, just bolt the turbo right on, exhaust having Ys from the cylinders in the head...

[matthugie]

I wonder if they made it rather like a roots type blower with both the turbine and compressor mounted solidly on either end of the block, perhaps even in the v of the engine... They could even make the shaft go through the block and pick up oil for the bearings and such, like a cam. If they design the whole motor from scratch, then it would be easy to make the turbo integral to the block... Could probably do away with headers I'd imagine, just bolt the turbo right on, exhaust having Ys from the cylinders in the head...

Why not take it one more step?

[DER E30]

Why not take it one more step?

6 stroke engine?

[BobombETA]

Very Cool!

[lukeADE335i]

I wonder if they made it rather like a roots type blower with both the turbine and compressor mounted solidly on either end of the block, perhaps even in the v of the engine... They could even make the shaft go through the block and pick up oil for the bearings and such, like a cam. If they design the whole motor from scratch, then it would be easy to make the turbo integral to the block... Could probably do away with headers I'd imagine, just bolt the turbo right on, exhaust having Ys from the cylinders in the head...

Given many of the current production engines are shifting to exhaust manifolds that are cast as part of the head & BMW's turbo V8s already have the turbo mounted up in the V, it's not such a stretch to imagine a high speed shaft casting in the middle of a V with cast turbine & compressor housings at either end of the block. Much ground has been made with research into very high RPM bearings etc. for various KERs systems (Porsche's 918 flywheel system is now in production?), so it probably won't be long.

How long before the F1 system is adapted to a Mercedes production engine? If its reliable, it would give them the jump on the other manufacturers.

[TobyB]

I suspect, for a production engine, the gains would be pretty negligable-
most of the heating of the charge air's caused by work done by the compressor,
not heat soak from the small amount of the housing that's closest to the center section...

In F1, yeah, it might make a small but significant difference. I'm sure it's not the only
reason the Mercedes tractor motor makes more area under the curve than the other
tractor motors...
On the street, where you're seldom in need of that last 2 hp,
unless it solves some other problems elegantly,
it's probably not going to be worth the hassle.

t

[gtdragon980]

Why not take it one more step?

LMFAO! That was a good one!

[3N9]

Maybe stknrvrs found a buyer for his technologyification ?

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=199665

Hard to argue the trickle down effect F1 produces - Coming soon to a show room near you?