s14 or s50

[CleanAzzE30z]

That guy took a 1/400 E30 ///M3 cabrio and painted it yellow? Hilarious I hope more people start doing this shit to their E30 ///M so mine continues to rise in value. :)

Sorry, but that kind of hp/liter is not reliable, period.

wrong. incorect. I have a 2.5 with all the goodies besides the CF intake and Alpha N. If its done right and you maintain it well, theres no problems.

Mariano

[CleanAzzE30z]

These motors turn to shit when someone buys the car that cannot afford the maintenance and or is oblivious to weak parts of the motor (timing system, oil pan baffle, rod bearings).

sell the s50 to a guy who wants to swap his eta engine out.

*raises hand*

Mariano

[rwh11385]

That guy took a 1/400 E30 ///M3 cabrio and painted it yellow? Hilarious I hope more people start doing this shit to their E30 ///M so mine continues to rise in value. :)

You have the reading comprehension of a middle school girl around shiny objects.

[bmw_e30]

S50, especially if you're going to have the M3 be a somewhat daily-driver. The S50 is much easier and cheaper to maintain, and also will be a lot easier to drive day to day. The S14 is a GREAT engine. But it's also very high-strung. If S14's aren't driven hard a lot, and constantly maintained, they will very steadily go downhill. If I were ever to get an M3, I would almost immediatley put an S50 in it. Hell, if you can, go for the gusto, and try to source a euro S50.

The Euro motor is an overall terrible choice for someone in the US.

[CleanAzzE30z]

You have the reading comprehension of a middle school girl around shiny objects.

I know I know. I just look at pics and post. I shouldnt do that, haha.

Mariano

[bmw_e30]

S14 because I promise it will still be a better car than you can handle.

I'm not sleighting you either, if you want to have a fun car and really learn how to drive the thing then leave the S14 in until it blows up. Adding more power will just hide mistakes and bad habits that all of have when we're behind the wheel.

But, being a student, I'm assuming track antics are not your primary purpose for the car so an S50 would make a neat street car.



(even if it is heresy ;))

I'm glad you're getting rid of the garbage w201 of yours. Welcome back Einne.

[bmw_e30]

I disagree completely.

If you go buy the RIGHT parts and DO NOT cut corners - you can produce an s14 that will make near 300 CRANK (not wheel) horsepower and will be a reliable car. There are guys that do 30-50 laps a year on the ring with their highly tuned s14's and do not tear them down annually or even bi-annually. Point being they take the abuse. Chances are whatever this person might shell out to it will not be as harsh as that much time full tilt on the ring.

That said - an s38 will handle that power better - but if you think the s14 is expensive, the s38 is a good sized step above that. Especially for aftermarket parts.

my mostly stock (bolt on modded) 2.3 did nearly 200k before it was rebuilt, and it once it was torn down it was found to be not needing much.

Also - who has first hand stories of s14's grenading? There are known problem areas, like rod bearings and replacing the timing system at 100k, adding an oil pan baffle, etc. But this is not limited to the s14. I am not about to make the assertion that the s14 is as reliable or cheap to maintain as the m20. The m20 might be the most bullet proof motor bmw has made (minus the belt driven timing system). However, like anything else, if you maintain it properly it will last. I know of 2 e30 m3's doing track days on orriginal motors that have over 200k on them and they pull just fine.

All the original M series motors are bulletproof.

M10/M20/M30.

The M10/M30 having the chain driven advantage.

[bmw_e30]

it costs a lot - but you don't need 300hp or anything close to have a fast car for the street or track. Most likely if someone has driven a stock 2.3 or 2.5 they are putting down somewhere in the area of 160-185 rwhp depending on maintenance or small bolt on's. If you build a reliable s14 that puts down 225 rwhp you are going to be hauling ass. Once my motor can be dyno'd, if i can pull 215 or so with the AFM i'll be extremely happy.

Also - i've read that most "stock" s50's at this point will generally put down 180-195 rwhp. If you cammed a stock 2.3, then got a CF box, and a few other small things, for the price of the s50, you could forseably get the same or more hp and have a more unique piece of machinery.

There are not that many 300bhp e30 m3's in the U.S... and most of them don't see enough miles to prove whether or not they will last 100k.

I'll give the bottom line here.

Any 300 BHP S14 will not be:

1. Streetable. It will have a very narrow powerband.

2. Cheap to build. Figure 20-25k in parts and labor alone. And teh dealer doesn't have S14 parts laying around either.

3. Last long. Honda uses cast iron sleeves in the cylinder bores for their high revving monster 4-cylinders. BMW uses nothing. I'd say you can drive it maybe 5000 miles a year and rebuild the top end every 2 or 3 years depending on use.

4. Price/Performence ration. Simply put. The first 40-50 hp costs around 6
6-8k on an S14. The next 50-60 costs 15-20k. Plus no one is going to pay for the high costs you spent when you sell the car.

I'll end my post by saying I am an S14 purist. I also think rationly. An E30 M3 needs and wants a S14. In 10-20 years from now, when there will be very few clean S14 powered E30 M3's......

Everyone who kept an S14 in their M3 will be smiling that they have a true piece of automotive and BMW history, with the correct motor that is.

[Steve30]

Good post.

*pours fuel out*
But, E30 M3s are not for penny pinchers. People who own them should be able to pay for the cost of owning an S14 powered car and however amount of power they want from it. If not, they should go buy something else.

*lights and throws match*
If you want a bunch of power (that is probably more than most of us can handle anyway) go buy a Supra.

*runs away*


:devil

[cramer]

I consider myself a "purist" in the sense of the E30 M3, so the "fuck the purist" comments usually apply to me.

With that said, if you are starting out with a shell of an M3 or one with a blown motor that you've picked up for next to nothing (totaled/branded title), I see nothing wrong with putting a non-s14 motor in it. Now the purist in me says, keep it BMW so that leaves out the SR20DET swaps ;)

It just makes $$ sense to put in a S50 as it's cheaper to buy, rebuild, and maintain.

What is odd is when someone buys an E30 M3 with a perfect running S14 who immediately pulls it to put in an S50/52... that just doesn't make sense to me. Buy a non M3 and save a bunch of money.

[erik325i]

I consider myself a "purist" in the sense of the E30 M3, so the "fuck the purist" comments usually apply to me.

With that said, if you are starting out with a shell of an M3 or one with a blown motor that you've picked up for next to nothing (totaled/branded title), I see nothing wrong with putting a non-s14 motor in it. Now the purist in me says, keep it BMW so that leaves out the SR20DET swaps ;)

It just makes $$ sense to put in a S50 as it's cheaper to buy, rebuild, and maintain.

What is odd is when someone buys an E30 M3 with a perfect running S14 who immediately pulls it to put in an S50/52... that just doesn't make sense to me. Buy a non M3 and save a bunch of money.

I agree with you. If I were to pick up a running m3 with a good s14, I wouldn't considder swapping it out.

What I have is a rolling shell, and I get to build it up.
Everything has been stripped out, so even if I decide to go with the s14 motor, it isn't exactly plug in and drive. I would have to source out all of the other parts (ECU, tranny, cooling system, wiring harness...) So, either motor will be just as much work to swap in IMO.
I'm not worried about pissing off the purists. I just want to make the right decision on which m3 motor to use.

-Erik

[uofom3]

I consider myself a "purist" in the sense of the E30 M3, so the "fuck the purist" comments usually apply to me.

With that said, if you are starting out with a shell of an M3 or one with a blown motor that you've picked up for next to nothing (totaled/branded title), I see nothing wrong with putting a non-s14 motor in it. Now the purist in me says, keep it BMW so that leaves out the SR20DET swaps ;)

It just makes $$ sense to put in a S50 as it's cheaper to buy, rebuild, and maintain.

What is odd is when someone buys an E30 M3 with a perfect running S14 who immediately pulls it to put in an S50/52... that just doesn't make sense to me. Buy a non M3 and save a bunch of money.

I can agree with this post. I'd still rather see an s14 in the shell... but when this is the case i can *somewhat* justify it..

[Bavarian3]

I like pancakes!

[uofom3]

mike you don't like pancakes stop that shit

[BimmerToad]

Sorry, but that kind of hp/liter is not reliable, period.

Honda can do it and I haven't heard of any problems with the S2k (correct me if I'm wrong)

While we're talking about dream engines....

M60 4.0L heads, pistons, and block
M60 3.0L crankshaft
Massive amounts of headwork, solid lifters, wild cams
= 3.6L Ferrari-esque V8

Now be sure NOT to put it into an E30 and you're good :up:

I wouldn't be too worried about 'perfect' weight distribution ... 45F 55R >>> 50F 50R Better braking and grip