I'm learning how to drive stick!

[ELVA164]

Not trying to thread jack but how does fuel consumption work with a manual transmission....when I'm cruising up a hill and I put the pedal to the floor but don't feel any extra power (because i didnt drop a gear) is that just wasting fuel?

That's a side-effect of not much torque for the given engine speed/gear. You're just wasting fuel. The key to fuel-efficient driving (especially with a manual transmission) is learning the least possible throttle input to maintain a given speed. Also, remember that coasting in gear uses zero fuel and is a great way to "cheat" your way to better mileage. Also also, make sure your car gets up to full operating temperature, the injectors aren't leaky, and vacuum leaks are taken care of.

[Navarone]

When you put the throttle to the floor the ECU goes open loop and runs fuel based on stock maps. I don't know if stock maps are more or less conservative, but based on when you would normally run open loop, like while full throttle driving pretty pissed off, it's expected that you don't give a shit about milage. I'd guess that milage suffers, but not by much because the maps are still in the approximate range for good air/fuel mixture.

[gtdragon980]

Omitted due to incorrect information

Whenever I am moving, I am always in gear. Whether it be 2mph or 100mph. I only shift to neutral once I have slowed to where my rpms have dropped near 1k and I am coming to a stop. This means, when coming to a stop, don't clutch in until you get near 1k rpms.

I highly recommend watching some how it works videos on clutches and manual transmissions to better understand what is going on, rather than thinking it is some magical box that makes you move (not saying that's what you think lol).

Elva got the double clutching correct!

[MoreMayhem]

I've been driving cars with standard transmissions for over 30 years and I've learned much from this thread.

[Navarone]

I'm learning how to drive stick!

Gtdragon, I agree with you on everything except that if you put it in neutral and the weight centers, the only thing slowing it down is drag and the little bit of drivetrain loss, there is no sudden change in wheel traction. That's safer than leaving it in gear and taking your foot off the gas and the weight shifts mostly forward do to the engine braking. That weight shift coupled with engine braking will cause more of a traction problem than a freely rotating wheel. Obviously this is only a problem for rear wheel traction while turning, (or on ice/hydroplaning) but it's still an important distinction to make.

Fwiw I still shift through all the gears all the time. Rev matching is fun, but it's also good to be in the correct gear in case you need to power out of a situation.

[ELVA164]

I'm going to add that in wintry/low grip conditions, especially when traveling downhill, it is safer to have a RWD vehicle in neutral than in gear. When in gear, the rear wheels will be affected by engine braking which can cause the rear to step out. This effect becomes more severe in lower-numbered gears.

[Das Delfin]

^ Actually driving in snow is the only time I'll keep the car in gear instead of coasting because it feels more stable and in control. But maybe because I keep the gas pedal in a fine balance of just on the gas enough to keep the car straight, and just off it enough to allow a bit (not 100%) of engine braking. There's a wide margin between lifting up on the gas pedal ever so slightly and taking your foot off completely. When I want to stop in the snow, I let the engine do 2/3 of the braking, before using my actual pedal brakes. And obvs start to stop 100ft ahead of where you want to stop. But driving in the snow is all about fine balance and gradual motion, neither of which would be possibly by just coasting. And a quick top is to always go up one gear than you normally would. ie if you normally drive in 3rd for a section of road, do it in 4th because there's less torque and therefore less potential to spin out.

And no, I don't have a second car to DD in the snow :/

[UlrichFennec]

This thread is super informative. Lately, since I haven't had much time with my friends and their cars, I've been using my racing wheel and pedals on Forza and Gran Turismo.

It's a little silly, but sometimes I'll just be going on a test track and practicing throttle control, shifting up and down and learning what to do when the rear steps out. I'm getting better, but all the advice has been helpful so far!

[cwatt]

Technically, neutral is for prolonged periods of standing while the engine is running to avoid having to disengage the transmission using the clutch and flywheel. For example, if I want to stop and exit my vehicle while it is running.

Proper driving technique is to downshift when decelerating and to remain in 1st at a stop-light to allow for egress in an emergency situation.

[ELVA164]

Delfin, I agree about the "one gear up" method. I had meant to say that when decelerating in low-grip situations, neutral is better. For example, braking down a hill or on ice covered by snow. You can definitely improve things with gentle throttle input, however. I feel your pain, I DD my E30 all year. I did the same thing with my 2002 and my Spitfire; no free lunch here! :)

Nothing silly about doing that OP, just remember that as good as they've gotten those games are still a generalization. Being able to balance a car on throttle in Forza doesn't necessarily mean it'll work that way in the real world. I know that's probably obvious to you, but it's worth mentioning. You can learn the general principles of things like gear choice in corners, however.

cwatt, I'd still rather lay off my pilot bearing/bushing, throw-out bearing/bushing, pressure plate fingers, and input shaft if I had to choose. The difference between me engaging first gear and moving or releasing the clutch and moving is extremely small, and I'd argue the difference is meaningless in such an emergency situation. Either you're paying attention and get out of the way, or you aren't and you don't.


On another note, does anyone else here select second gear before first/reverse and/or blip the throttle to select either gear from a stop? It's an old-school thing but it may provide a benefit.

[Das Delfin]

Elva: Gotcha. Going down hill and trying to de accelerate when it's icy out is a fun one. I... left foot brake for that instant when I need to brake while easing off the throttle. And make sure I'm wearing narrow boots :P But mostly I try to see ahead far enough to not have to do any of that

On another note, does anyone else here select second gear before first/reverse and/or blip the throttle to select either gear from a stop? It's an old-school thing but it may provide a benefit.

If it doesn't want to work try another gear and then come back to it! I've done the throttle blip thing too. It depends on what works at the time. The thing I love the most about manuals vs automatics is a manual will tell you when you're doing something wrong.

[gtdragon980]

Gtdragon, I agree with you on everything except that if you put it in neutral and the weight centers, the only thing slowing it down is drag and the little bit of drivetrain loss, there is no sudden change in wheel traction. That's safer than leaving it in gear and taking your foot off the gas and the weight shifts mostly forward do to the engine braking. That weight shift coupled with engine braking will cause more of a traction problem than a freely rotating wheel. Obviously this is only a problem for rear wheel traction while turning, (or on ice/hydroplaning) but it's still an important distinction to make.

Fwiw I still shift through all the gears all the time. Rev matching is fun, but it's also good to be in the correct gear in case you need to power out of a situation.

You're right! I was thinking of lift-off oversteer and got it confused with being in neutral when turning.

[Mwishlist]

Just a question, isn't it better to be in Neutral at a light than in gear? If you get hit from the rear or side and your foot pops off the clutch, don't you run the risk of launching forward into the car in front of you or the intersection?

I always sit in neutral unless I am rolling up to a light that's about to change so I was surprised almost no one else on seems to.

[15Michaeljoseph]

Just a question, isn't it better to be in Neutral at a light than in gear? If you get hit from the rear or side and your foot pops off the clutch, don't you run the risk of launching forward into the car in front of you or the intersection?

I always sit in neutral unless I am rolling up to a light that's about to change so I was surprised almost no one else on seems to.

I always sit in neutral to ease stress of the slave cylinder and my leg and all that... but I doubt it really matters when you get hit from behind like that. and anyway, if you got hit, regardless of wether or not you're on the clutch you're probably going to get 'launched forward' anyway. if you were sitting in gear, and you get hit, and your foot slips off the cluch or whatever, car's going to stall. you'll still have your brakes, and since the car will still be in gear, it'll be harder to move..... Idk. my head hurts from thinking about this scenario.


--Mike

[ELVA164]

The car would have a decent chance of staying running in first gear at idle, at least long enough to get your car into the center of an intersection. Neutral > first gear with clutch depressed if you ask me.

As far as the snow driving thing, I asked a few people we work with about it and they were pretty evenly split whether being in gear is better or worse when decelerating downhill in snow. Guess it's undecided? :dontknow

By the way, I'm only in my mid twenties so I'm by no means the end-all be-all on driving stick. Hopefully it doesn't sound that way.