German reliability: the greatest myth

[steve68]

[QUOTE=lti_57;4431729]
Bring
More
Wallet


Bring
More
Wrench's

Break
My
Wallet

Black
Mans
Wheels

all from my friend who was a BMW mechanic at one time,

my E60, has a 102K going to do some gasket work this weekend, 1st time touching the motor for 3yrs 60K except oil changes,

[GDA]

An easy comparison of durability is to compare a 88 E28 535is versus a 2002 E39 540. The addition of numerous electrical parts, sensors and addition of plastic or composite components to save weight has severely reduced the ability of the latter car to easily endure 300k on the original drivetrain and chassis.

Taken a step further, just the level of additional parts adds to the odds of incremental items that can (and will) fail over time due to use or misuse over a general service period of 10 years or 100k miles. Its my impression that most all auto consumers have zero appreciation for this added level of complexity and thus creates even more negative comments toward reduced reliability. It is in this area the newer cars have a much more difficult threshold to maintain an impression of strong reliability.

[nando]

meh. It definitely depends on the model, and sometimes luck. I haven't had to do anything to my E90. I did have a light bulb burn out, and I ran over a bungee chord that destroyed a rear tire.. but otherwise all I've done are filters and oil changes.

The E30 has had problems but they were mostly caused by me, plus I've had it for more than a decade. I mean, really, I've beat the ever living hell out of this car the entire time I've had it. The only time it ever truly left my stranded (as in, I had to call somebody to come get me) was when I foolishly tried to flash a new beta firmware to my Megasquirt in the parking lot at work during lunch. It bricked the computer. Oops..

besides, his examples were Audi and VW. I don't recall if it's still true, but Porsche was consistently at the top for reliability for a while. We all know BMW isn't a Toyota, but that's exactly why we drive them, because they aren't Toyotas.

[Stanley Rockafella]

I don't recall if it's still true, but Porsche was consistently at the top for reliability for a while.

I don't know if that was ever true

[dude8383]

So they continue to show their engineering dominance by creating all sorts of crazy gadgets and sticking them in the cars; stuff that no one wants, such as cooled gloveboxes, and rear armrest refrigerators, and those little tray tables that fold down, presumably to allow people riding in the back of an Audi A8 to do some cocaine.

I enjoyed the tray table bit...

I think that if these cars were maintained properly they wouldn't be as unreliable as people think they are... most of the unreliability comes from people thinking cars need nothing for 100,000 miles

[nando]

it was - there were some bearing issues on one of the motors but the cars were for the most part rock solid.

[noid]

meh. It definitely depends on the model, and sometimes luck. I haven't had to do anything to my E90. I did have a light bulb burn out, and I ran over a bungee chord that destroyed a rear tire.. but otherwise all I've done are filters and oil changes.

The E30 has had problems but they were mostly caused by me, plus I've had it for more than a decade. I mean, really, I've beat the ever living hell out of this car the entire time I've had it. The only time it ever truly left my stranded (as in, I had to call somebody to come get me) was when I foolishly tried to flash a new beta firmware to my Megasquirt in the parking lot at work during lunch. It bricked the computer. Oops..

besides, his examples were Audi and VW. I don't recall if it's still true, but Porsche was consistently at the top for reliability for a while. We all know BMW isn't a Toyota, but that's exactly why we drive them, because they aren't Toyotas.

My current 2007 E90:

Whole top end changed (under warranty)
Steering column changed
Two door actuators
rear window seal
Burns oil (most e90's do)
o2 Sensor

Not reliable

The absolute worst POS I have ever owned was a E53 X5, that thing was a nightmare, and I probably had the best kept example in a 1000 mile radius.

The E30 is fairly reliable, when parts break I acknowledge that they have served their purpose for 25+ years and I can only hope the replacement part lasts that long again.

Old diesel mercs though, those things were bullet proof.

[Stanley Rockafella]

any details as to which models and years this applied to?

Also, most of the stats gathered are an average for a given make, when compared to other makes. Since Porsche makes so few cars, it's kinda obvious that on average their cars are more reliable since there's so few of them to begin with.

ijs

Old diesel mercs though, those things were bullet proof.

they also were far simpler with less crap to break

[ReallyDirtyThirty]

I'm not saying german cars are reliable but the writer sounds like a typical American who has never been to Germany and bases his facts off his german "friend"

End rant

The writer actually had a pretty successful career working for Porsche before he decided to make a life change and pursue automotive journalism. He spent considerable time in Germany while he was employed at Porsche.

[Stanley Rockafella]

zing!

[Wschnitz]

I think the biggest difference ive noticed, is that even when things break on german cars, the cars still run. Working at Mazda I couldn't say the same about them.

[DEV0 E30]

I don't know if that was ever true

It was within the last few years, I remember that graphic. But within the last few years means people buying new/CPO P cars. Those people who are buying ~$100,000 cars are usually doing ok, and many times own more than one.

[mlbryant8]

I think the biggest difference ive noticed, is that even when things break on german cars, the cars still run. Working at Mazda I couldn't say the same about them.

Actually, I have owned four Mazdas, a rx7, a mx6, a Miata and a 2007 6. The only one that ever gave me any trouble was the rx7 and it was beaten when I got it. The other two I bought new and put 280,000 miles on the 2007 before I sold it and it was still running strong. Never had to do anything except replace the radiator and starter in 7 years of ownership. The Miata was bullet proof until I took it for an oil change while on a road trip and they drained it but never put oil back in it. Ran for about 600 miles before the engine blew. I would buy one in a heartbeat except I just love BMWs. On my 5th and the only bad experience was with my x5. A lot of aggravating little things that still were expensive. After my cats went out, I traded it for my 2007 Mazda 6.

[3liter6]

I don't know if that was ever true

It probably was. The 911SC and 3.2 Carrera are somewhat legendary for their reliability with examples having gone 200, 300, 400K miles before needing major repair. There were a few issues with things like clutches and airboxes exploding, but overall they were fantastically reliable and perfectly capable of being daily driven assuming proper care and feeding (valve adjustments, oil changes, doing a couple of preventive upgrades).

The article is a bit silly, as I think the myth is that anyone believes German cars designed after ~2000 model year are actually reliable. I sure don't, and even if I did like the styling, definitely wouldn't buy one without a factory warranty attached.

I could maybe be talked into an R53 Cooper S, but that's 'bout it.

[agent]

I don't recall if it's still true, but Porsche was consistently at the top for reliability for a while..

I don't know if that was ever true

It was within the last few years, I remember that graphic.

It probably was.

If quality is synonymous with reliability...

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1098785_porsche-ranks-highest-in-j-d-power-initial-quality-study-for-third-year-in-a-row