E30 vs 2002 for long-term ownership & driving experience

[estoguy]

looks: 2002
feel: e30
driving position: e30
handling: e30
power: e30
reliability: e30
parts availability: e30
etc: e30
e30: e30

This is legit.

[ELVA164]

If you're looking for a "sweet spot" car from the 2002 era that you could use on a regular basis, the CS is the way to go. Comfortable, a bit bigger, beautiful, not hard to get decent power, 5-speed swap if you want, big trunk...


That's my goal. I want one so very much.

[Hooffenstein HD]

looks: 2002
feel: e30
driving position: e30
handling: e30
power: e30
reliability: e30
parts availability: e30
etc: e30
e30: e30

Pretty much this.

2002 has a cool factor that the E30 doesn't(it's got its own) but the E30 is realistically a superior car.

[2mAn]

I'm curious - of you guys who have driven or owned both, if you had the choice of an E30 set up the way you wanted it, or a nice 2002 roundie the way you wanted it (with M20?), which would you rather daily and keep long term?

Looks / feel / driving position / handling / power / reliability / parts availability / etc / etc

After reading this, I thought this was the perfect response...

looks: 2002
feel: e30
driving position: e30
handling: e30
power: e30
reliability: e30
parts availability: e30
etc: e30
e30: e30

But then you mentioned these things...

All very interesting to hear. I always assumed I'd climb the ladder backwards and eventually get a 2002 fake tii or small 6 swap. I almost bought a sweet 2800 sedan (Bavaria), but I don't need a sedan, I have a Volvo wagon!

I'd like to drive my Alfa every day when I get it put back together, at least until the snow, but when I did that before it was 20 to 35 years old, now it's 50. Of course, I live in a small place now, I don't go far, no bumper-to-bumper. But I'd like to get it totally reliable for 2-lane road trips over the mountains.

A M20 powered 2002 can do these things IF you dont need the power steering or A/C. I think you can pull it off because when you get stuck in those crappy, Im an adult and need an adult car, the Vulva Wagon can do the job.

YOLO

[MrBurgundy]

E39

[agent]

E39

[SkiFree]

I'm curious - of you guys who have driven or owned both, if you had the choice of an E30 set up the way you wanted it, or a nice 2002 roundie the way you wanted it (with M20?), which would you rather daily and keep long term?

Looks / feel / driving position / handling / power / reliability / parts availability / etc / etc

Build the roundie M20'02 if you are looking for a very fun/reliable car to drive and enjoy long-term. Think of it as an E30 with the character dialed up to eleven. The car is one of the most reliable classics out there, and very capable of long trips. However, plan on having an "appliance car" to daily. Calling the E30 a "superior car" technologically-speaking is kind of missing the point of driving a 2002.


Looks: Undoubtedly iconic.
Feel: My favorite older car to drive, but it is older.
Driving Position: You are a member of the Jetsons family, one of my favorite points.
Handling: With the battery in the back, you are only adding 20-30-ish pounds to the front of the 2002. Good suspension does wonders. The car ... dances.
Power: 200-220whp is as far as you go without overwhelming the chassis.
Reliability: Should be a non-issue. There's a reason there are still so many out there.
Parts Availability: Some stuff is getting tricky, but it's not overly difficult.
Value: PROPERLY built restomod 2002's are pulling 60-100k.

[LateFan]

...the CS is the way to go. Comfortable, a bit bigger, beautiful,
That's my goal. I want one so very much.

They are beautiful - one of the best designs out there in the modern era. Alpina wheels, mmm. They have quite a reputation for rusting away if not garage-queened. I looked at one on the street here that was just dissolving.

A M20 powered 2002 can do these things IF you dont need the power steering or A/C. I think you can pull it off because when you get stuck in those crappy, Im an adult and need an adult car, the Vulva Wagon can do the job.

That's the great thing about the Alfa - no power anything! 4 spark plugs, a coil, and a generator! AC is take the roof down. That ADULT thing is overrated... But, OTOH....when you've got to haul shit to Seattle or back, in a hurry...or help the kids move...

Think of it as an E30 with the character dialed up to eleven. The car is one of the most reliable classics out there, and very capable of long trips.

Looks: Undoubtedly iconic.
Feel: My favorite older car to drive, but it is older.
Driving Position: You are a member of the Jetsons family, one of my favorite points.
Handling: With the battery in the back, you are only adding 20-30-ish pounds to the front of the 2002. Good suspension does wonders. The car ... dances.
Reliability: Should be a non-issue. There's a reason there are still so many out there.
Value: PROPERLY built restomod 2002's are pulling 60-100k.

I like a classic small sports car and nimble handling.

Do The Jetsons sit tall and upright, is that what you mean? I might feel like Mr Bean driving it?

Re: prices - yeah, they may already be out of reach for a clean one with no rust.

Great discussion, I'm learning a lot. I like to actually drive one sometime. Bottom line, however, is I'm pretty sure we'll keep the E30 in the family for a long time.

[IceWhite]

You guys are lucky to have the option of choosing between the E30 and 2002.

[LateFan]

Another thought - do you guys have a mental list like I do of target cars you want, classics you'd like to drive, fun projects to build?......but then, what are they like to actually drive? You love the looks of them, but what about the interior and driving experience...are they a pain in the ass?

Just a few of the more realistic ones I have in my head, just for fun -

2002 - I love them. Bone stock?...or low and quick?


E30 - I love them. Fixed steering wheel seems a little high, but you get used to it.


'67 Volvo 122 wagon, sort of a restomod idea....lower, wider steel wheels with dog dishes, more power. Don't know how much the handling can be improved. Odvar the Volvo mechanic in Seattle called them tractors.


'68 Triumph TR250 - the IRS TR4 Michelotti body with the TR6 engine, one year only. Sweet car, but it IS British, and there ARE Lucas parts in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZoFaCr-TDY (start at :16)

MGB GT V8 Sebring replica - HA! Probably not a commuter! (Trivia - Pininfarina designed the GT)


Porsche 911 long hood - completely out of reach now.

Porsche 914-6 GT replica - you would need $25 to $30,000 in parts to make this happen. Used SC 3-liter?....$5000.


Beck 904 replica....wait, didn't I just say "realistic?"

[TobyB]

the world has moved on

This.

The E30 handles like a Sherman tank with rusty tracks compared to a 2002
that's set up right-
but an E36 (non ti) has FAR more rear grip.

The 2002 is much lighter, flimsier, easier to see out of, easier to maneuver
and much more likely to fold up like a handkerchief if you meet a modern car.

If you want to total a roundie, just parallel park it in any major metro area
and come back 8 hours later- both ends will be staved in.

A 2002 has roughly the same hp/weight ratio as a E30, but NOT torque/weight.

Around here, about 10 years ago the 2002 went from 'cool car' to 'I don't see anything'
in the eyes of the left- seat- sitters in the blobstar 8795s's.

E36 if you want a 'classic' commuter anymore.

You'll get roughly the same answer out of www.2002faq.com

t

[Zaffer]

After driving both a fair amount, I still think the e30 feels better. I lusted after a 2002 for a while, but the suspension is still not as good, IMHO, as the e30.

I do like the styling of the 02, as far as classic styling, but I prefer the abundance of things you can do to an e30 more.

As for the visibility, it is better in a 02, but the e30 is still really good.

As for road feel, the 02 is much better, but that's due to lack of power steering, which I don't think is an issue until low speed maneuvering, but even there the 02 isn't bad. You can always install power steering in an 02 if you want.

In the end, it all comes down to personal preference and what you are planning on doing with the car. I have a 914 that has no power steering or brakes that I used to daily when I was younger, and it was fine. Would I want to do that now? Probably not, but it's now a weekend car so it's not a big deal.

[LateFan]

Thanks Zaffer - (I was only recently The Noobie around here)

Visibility in the E30 is very good, I agree.

Updating the steering rack was a huge change in the behavior of the car. Springs and bushings as well, of course. Ours needs better shocks.

It feels bigger than the 02, but then you park it next to any modern "small" car (much less a pickup) and you realize how small it really is.

[mjposner]

The flaw in this argument is we don't know the daily commute. I drive 22 miles of mixed roads, about 5 at 40 to get to main road, 12 on a 3-4 lane road at 55-60, then 5 miles on I-95 at 80. I have driven my 65 Corvair to work and its a bit hairy. Anything over 70 is a bit too much, the 4 speed has no overdrive and the drum brakes are too easy to lock-up. Plus no a/c and I am in South Florida (it is a convertible). So if we are talking a 2-5 mile easy roads commute, then I lean 2002 (5 speed upgrade is easy). Anything more, or highway then E30 hands down (and I drive my E30 to work often and have no issues.

[Stanley Rockafella]

You guys are lucky to have the option of choosing between the E30 and 2002.

Oh yeah, that's right. SA's first BMW since the Apartheid days was the e30.


It was a huge hit with my family down there in the 80's. I still have some family pics with their e30's!

'67 Volvo 122 wagon, sort of a restomod idea....lower, wider steel wheels with dog dishes, more power. Don't know how much the handling can be improved. Odvar the Volvo mechanic in Seattle called them tractors.

Practically ANY 4 cyl. Volvo from before the 90's can be referred to as a tractor. Especially the 240 series.