No more MT BMWs in 2019 - and why I'll never buy anything past an EXX series

[Staszek]

We don't drive F1 cars and we're not F1 drivers. I DGAF about 0.2 second faster shift times. Most of the time I'm lucky if I can even do the speed limit - what good is a 4 second 0-60?

the ZF 8 speed is still an automatic. It's still going to drive me crazy by picking the wrong gears and bore me to tears. I don't want to play with flappy paddles, it's not a damn Xbox.

Even things like parking and reversing with an AT drive me crazy. Fast shift times in forward gears are one thing. I still have to wait for the stupid transmission to engage between R and D to back out of a parking spot or do a 3 point turn, which I can do way faster with manual control - I don't even have to wait for the car to stop completely to switch directions.

And don't even get me started on the horribly over-complicated shift lever mechanism BMW uses on modern AT cars.

I agree with you on the modern AT mechanism, it sucks in our X5. My point was BMW isn't losing their way at least with transmissions, other things I can argue, its progress and except for a few people on these boards no one cares about manuals.

I could see the arguments in the 90's these cars and their dumb fuel injection, I cant adjust my cars carburetor!!!

We can all agree that there is some tech that we are going to miss, but progress happens in every area. Keep your car forever so you never have to drive a non-manual but that shouldn't stop BMW from moving forward, just like we are all not carrying around Motorola startacs anymore.

[nando]

We don't drive F1 cars and we're not F1 drivers. I DGAF about 0.2 second faster shift times. Most of the time I'm lucky if I can even do the speed limit - what good is a 4 second 0-60?

the ZF 8 speed is still an automatic. It's still going to drive me crazy by picking the wrong gears and bore me to tears. I don't want to play with flappy paddles, it's not a damn Xbox.

Even things like parking and reversing with an AT drive me crazy. Fast shift times in forward gears are one thing. I still have to wait for the stupid transmission to engage between R and D to back out of a parking spot or do a 3 point turn, which I can do way faster with manual control - I don't even have to wait for the car to stop completely to switch directions.

And don't even get me started on the horribly over-complicated shift lever mechanism BMW uses on modern AT cars.

[SOneThreeCoupe]

It doesn't matter how great the shift action of the 8-speed or how robust the design is if it isn't what I want. It's in a race car, neat- honestly. But... you've got a great transmission I don't need to experience in a car I don't want to drive.

Porsche offers a 7-speed manual. Don't care, it comes in a chassis IDGAF about. The PDK is an incredible piece of machinery that I'll likely never experience.

For me, it all boils down to the fact that the roads I drive for fun are tight, narrow and pretty slow. I don't want the grip or speed modern performance cars provide, nor do I want their width and weight. BMW can do what it wants with the entirety of the range and I don't care. I just want them to maintain enough profitability to reproduce classic parts for their cars I love.

I used to get bummed about manufacturers discontinuing "fun" cars or removing a manual option but I just don't care anymore. Every car I want to drive has already been made.

[Staszek]

I hate to say it, but I could not disagree more with some of these comments.

I think BMW is simply adapting to the industry just like everyone else. The Manual transmission is dead, I hate to say it, I love having one, I spent over a year trying to find my manual E60 M5.. I understand that.

Now, with that out of the way I think its important to look at there the industry is going. The 3 Series is dying, the Mercedes C class is dying, the luxury car market is failing, all of because of Tesla and that damn model 3.

The modern car buyer does not want a manual, the modern car buyer does not even want to drive anymore, all this stupid crap including Autopilot is simply taking driving away from us in general.

I think the only mistake BMW has made in the last 10 years is not paying attention to Tesla and being behind on the electric car side of the camp.

I've driven newer BMW's (albeit not the 2019's yet) and they are still great cars to drive, The 340I is a great car, the ZF 8 speed is a hell of a transmission, and the DCT in the M3/M4 is beast...

I was a bit unsure of the new M5 with the ZF Auto versus the DCT, but folks I've spoken with say its still as much as a wolf in sheeps clothing as its ever been.

Yes they make quite a few stupid cars (X1/X2/X4/X6, some of the GT classes, but I'd be more than happy to own a new M4 or M5, or a 340i ///M Sport, hell even the 230i is a fantastic car.

BMW isn't loosing focus, we are simply getting older and want these damn automatics off our front lawns.

My

I completely agree with this. Porsche who I would consider trying to stay more of a driver's car than BMW has been moving away from manuals at a much faster pace.

Do I love manual, sure its fun, and I will always have one around, but if you haven't driven a newer DSG they are pretty damn engaging and you can blip through gears like crazy.

There is a reason F1 cars are not manuals, its forward progress, not F1 losing their way.

That being said I do think BMW is dumbing down some of its models and they are too soft, but that is a different topic from manual transmissions that really no one is buying anymore.

[moatilliatta]

The m235iR has the Zf 8 speed. Crisp and bulletproof. Although you want a 6 speed in it?

I still giggle at electric cars. What? does electric just come out of the sky when you rub your socks on the staticy floor. Wrong, your car is probably coal powered. What happens when the market is no longer subsidized?

[Aleman]

I've had both types of Cooper S (supercharger and turbo) and while they are fun sporty cars they also feel 'cheap' and I had more than a few problems with both of them. They have always been a disposable car, right from their inception. Drive the hell out of them and get rid of it. Pain in the ass to work on too, like most fwd platforms are.


Hardly a substitute for an e30-e46 car.

I agree with all of the above. If folks are looking for a new car with a manual trans, there are other places to look outside of the 3-series. The Internet is saying that the 2019 2-series will get a 6-speed manual, and that car is, in my opinion, the true descendant of the E30. The modern 3-series is way too big and heavy by comparison.

[nineteeneightyseven]

As I've said in past posts, BMW has directed their fun-focused, manual shift efforts to the Mini brand. My '07 Cooper S 6-speed is a blast to drive, and I don't see those going to an all-automatic platform any time soon.

I've had both types of Cooper S (supercharger and turbo) and while they are fun sporty cars they also feel 'cheap' and I had more than a few problems with both of them. They have always been a disposable car, right from their inception. Drive the hell out of them and get rid of it. Pain in the ass to work on too, like most fwd platforms are.


Hardly a substitute for an e30-e46 car.

[325e '87]

i understand that some of you want to drive stick for the fun, nothing wrong with it. But:

^^this. Do any of you have any idea how good these work? This is not the older 6-speed automatic, the 8-speed ZF is a dream to work with.


And if you put the ZF into paddleshift it's one hell of a fun to sport it around.



Did you guys know that the M235i racing uses the same ZF 8-Speed streetcars use? Just with a different software and in paddleshift only. Yes, the BMW racecar uses the automatic gearbox for racing. That's how good it is.

Yeah, I showed this thread to my son and we made a similar conclusion. With more than 6 gears it just becomes physically impossible to operate the transmission manually as well as a regular 5 speed (in a sporting context).

I’ve never been in a bmw car built after 1992 so I can’t speak from experience but I do know one thing for certain, a NA in-line 6 engine is just heavenly to me and I simply don’t care to own anything else. In no way am I trying to project my preferences on other people, but, I do find it very hard to know that bmw has left me behind in an existential context. Sucks getting old.

[Ludwig]

i understand that some of you want to drive stick for the fun, nothing wrong with it. But:

[...] the ZF 8 speed is a hell of a transmission, and the DCT in the M3/M4 is beast...[...]

^^this. Do any of you have any idea how good these work? This is not the older 6-speed automatic, the 8-speed ZF is a dream to work with.


And if you put the ZF into paddleshift it's one hell of a fun to sport it around.



Did you guys know that the M235i racing uses the same ZF 8-Speed streetcars use? Just with a different software and in paddleshift only. Yes, the BMW racecar uses the automatic gearbox for racing. That's how good it is.

[James Crivellone]

I hate to say it, but I could not disagree more with some of these comments.

I think BMW is simply adapting to the industry just like everyone else. The Manual transmission is dead, I hate to say it, I love having one, I spent over a year trying to find my manual E60 M5.. I understand that.

Now, with that out of the way I think its important to look at there the industry is going. The 3 Series is dying, the Mercedes C class is dying, the luxury car market is failing, all of because of Tesla and that damn model 3.

The modern car buyer does not want a manual, the modern car buyer does not even want to drive anymore, all this stupid crap including Autopilot is simply taking driving away from us in general.

I think the only mistake BMW has made in the last 10 years is not paying attention to Tesla and being behind on the electric car side of the camp.

I've driven newer BMW's (albeit not the 2019's yet) and they are still great cars to drive, The 340I is a great car, the ZF 8 speed is a hell of a transmission, and the DCT in the M3/M4 is beast...

I was a bit unsure of the new M5 with the ZF Auto versus the DCT, but folks I've spoken with say its still as much as a wolf in sheeps clothing as its ever been.

Yes they make quite a few stupid cars (X1/X2/X4/X6, some of the GT classes, but I'd be more than happy to own a new M4 or M5, or a 340i ///M Sport, hell even the 230i is a fantastic car.

BMW isn't loosing focus, we are simply getting older and want these damn automatics off our front lawns.

My

[majdomo]

They are all glued together iDevices with steering wheels and plastic covered engine compartments. It’s an appliance with an engine. Good luck trying to wrench on one. Hermetically sealed and “lifetime” lubrication just means a 3 year 60k mile life expectancy before flipping the lease for a new one.

That said - life goes on. Time was, an E30 was a bastardized ‘02 with EFI and creature comforts like working A/C. The E46 M3 was the last of its kind, as was the E9x 330i. NA has gone the way of the dodo. So has the MT. But, as noted earlier, all the doodads and gewgaws and upgrade cycles in the newer cars keep margins high, allowing BMW to keep supporting the classics.

Yes, the new ones suck. I wouldn’t buy one. But it’s a necessary evil, I think, to keep the good ones going.


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[325e '87]

It’s very satisfying to me to read this thread, so thanks.

I wrote off the idea that I would own a newer bmw over a decade ago. A nice e46 will always be an option for me, and, when I get enough cash saved up I will likely buy a nice, late ‘80’s e28 535i. They’re expensive if you ever come across a garaged, unmolested car, but if I ever see one it will be my last car.

[KI4UJO]

The removal of the manual trans from the line up. Is it because of natural selection or government?

The hideous design / Blunt pedestrian safety front ends, Cap loads of safety / lane avoidance crap - Because of Natural selection or Government?

I'm pretty sure Europe manuals are declining because of emissions pushed against their vehicles. Where heading down the same socialist drain.

Accurate. Its simply harder for a manual to meet emissions numbers - especially w/European test procedures changing. Couple that with the very small percentage of American buyers who actually want one, and its very easy to see why it is not being offered here.

[moatilliatta]

The removal of the manual trans from the line up. Is it because of natural selection or government?

The hideous design / Blunt pedestrian safety front ends, Cap loads of safety / lane avoidance crap - Because of Natural selection or Government?

I'm pretty sure Europe manuals are declining because of emissions pushed against their vehicles. Where heading down the same socialist drain.

[redsubdivisions]

It's no longer a driver's market. This shouldn't be a surprise but driving purists are a minority. Most people see a car as an appliance now.