Pre-Purchase Inspections: What has been your experience?

[hexagone]

Trying to get a sense of experiences that buyers/sellers had with PPIs on their e30s. Especially now as some are increasing in value, and buyers/sellers better know what is at stake for having a quality car.

I realize this experience is all over the board, especially with not-common vehicles like well sorted e30s, and ones where specialists are few and far in between:

• How much did you pay for a PPI?
• Was the PPI you got thorough enough?
• What was the PPI missing?
• How did you find the dealer/shop/person that did the PPI?
• Did it include photos?
• Did you get undercarriage photos? Are these important to you?
• Was a compression test included/important to you?
• Did the PPI include a paint reading / do you care about one?
• Did you trust the PPI?/ did you buy the car because of the PPI?
• Have you ever gotten a PPI ahead of selling a car?
• What do you think is missing in the process of getting a PPI (as a buyer or seller)?
• How would the experience of buying a car far away be improved to you?
• How much was cost a factor in the PPI (buying or selling)

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[mbonder]

I got a PPI on an e30 that I bought 12 years ago but I did it mainly because I couldn't see the car in person before purchasing and I wasn't going to buy without having someone else look at it (I'm in NJ and the car was in VA).

I have had several other PPIs completed on newer cars that I've purchased, most recently a 2008 535xi touring. From these experiences I can tell you that the standard seems to be (regardless of dealer or independent shop) to check all the fluids, check all the major systems, look for accident damage, look for wear items and deferred maintenance, drive the car to see if it's got any frame/suspension/wheel issues, then check for interior condition.

In reality, most people will spend about an hour on it and the cost will be between $100-200 to do it.

If you want things like OBD hookup to check codes, compression test, paint depth, you'll probably have to ask specifically for that unless you go to a place that does vintage restorations or the like and that would be standard.

I look at a PPI as insurance against buying something that has big issues. Unless the car is described as perfect, I'd expect a few small things to need repair on a car as old as the e30 and wouldn't be deterred from purchasing. The PPI just eliminates big things like head gasket failures, trans problems, accident damage, etc.

My dealer PPI had photos, the e30 one I drove the car with the owner to the shop for the PPI prior to my purchase, if something was found that I deemed unacceptable I would have walked from the deal and took the train back to NJ. Each time I felt that I was more comfortable making the purchase because an expert had given me a rundown of the major things on the car, I didn't, however, look at that as all-inclusive and expected small things to pop up (and they did in each case), but those were acceptable to me given the nature of the purchase and the age of the vehicle.

Where is the car you're looking to purchase? Maybe an enthusiast lives close and can also check it out for added peace of mind.

[20w506cyl]

I have had a few done and one saved me a lot of cash and heartache. I almost bought a 90 M3 back in the day (1994). I was able to drive it to a indie where I could be there when they put it on the lift. It had been in a accident and the repairs were horrible, he estimated $5000 to get it back to stock condition. Ended up getting a 90 325IS instead which I still have today, but wish I had searched harder for another M3 cause at that time the prices were close in my area. Even back then the PPI was $120 but worth it to me. Things they checked back then were compression, suspension, brakes, made sure all gauges work, basic mechanical things but not the electronic things that would be done today. Hope this helps and good luck.

[Cosk82]

I have had a few done and one saved me a lot of cash and heartache. I almost bought a 90 M3 back in the day (1994). I was able to drive it to a indie where I could be there when they put it on the lift. It had been in a accident and the repairs were horrible, he estimated $5000 to get it back to stock condition. Ended up getting a 90 325IS instead which I still have today, but wish I had searched harder for another M3 cause at that time the prices were close in my area. Even back then the PPI was $120 but worth it to me. Things they checked back then were compression, suspension, brakes, made sure all gauges work, basic mechanical things but not the electronic things that would be done today. Hope this helps and good luck.

What was the price for a used m3 back in 94?

[20w506cyl]

What was the price for a used m3 back in 94?

I think it was $17,500 and I looked at another one that was rode hard that was $16,000. I paid $16,000 out the door for my 90 325IS. M3's just were not going for much, seemed like in my area when the E36's came out everybody wanted the newer model at that time. I remember talking to a friend wondering how a M3 was around the same price as a 325IS.

[CMG]

PPI are good if you are not able to inspect the car on your own, the big plus is getting it up on the lift to be thorough. Other than the E30 M3 and showroom condition examples the regular E30 still have at least 10 more years before they will possibly increase to collector car status. There are still plenty options to be had so if you are buying for collector purposes and paying a premium then definitely do a ppi and get the car that is complete and perfect condition with the records to back up ownership and maintenance history. Unless you have an awesome dealership in your area your best bet is to find a quality Indy shop to do a ppi and it should include a printout and pictures for inspection and rating of all systems and areas. In my experience I have gotten way better deals without a ppi, but that's only because I know enough to be able to inspect myself.

[majdomo]

Dealers in SoCal generally won't do PPIs, in my experience, plus for what it's worth the dealer shops don't know E30s like a good independent. That said, I had a PPI on my E30 and I still ended up with a profile gasket failure a month after buying, and the shop I used was one of the most reputable ones in the area. Not that he does work on my car now, however...

On the other hand, I just bought my 3rd gen 4Runner without having a shop do a PPI, and once I got it to a mechanic to correct the stuff I found on my own, he didn't find anything beyond what I found prior to purchase. May be luck, may be that I know what to look for after learning a little bit about cars from my E30. Agreed they are generally looking for major stuff and frame damage, or repairs that were poorly completed.

The PPI on my E30 was basically an estimate of repairs required. There weren't photos, or a leakdown or anything like that - but they can do that stuff for a fee. My P-car buddy won't buy a vintage 911 without a leakdown, but that's a different league in terms of risk and cost. I also did a PPI on a 996 that I didn't end up buying, mainly because the PPI showed a ton of deferred maintenance and the seller wouldn't budge on his overinflated price. (Car was in amazing shape, mainly because he didn't drive it, and that was mainly because he couldn't afford to maintain it...both of which are kind of the worst things you can do for a performance car.) The way I found both shops were word of mouth. The 911 shop is a well-known Porsche independent in Pasadena, while the E30 shop was damn close to the seller and one of the better known BMW-specific independents in the Valley.

For me, the PPI missed out on some big signs of cooling system issues. I don't know how you'd figure out a profile gasket was about to go, but I figured a good mechanic would be able to. I found out the hard way on that one. But, all that said, I love my car and all the bullshit I've been through with it just makes it all that much more fun to drive and maintain :)

[nando]

A modern PPI is basically plugging the car into a scanner and looking for leaks. I'd expect a 30 year old car to have leaks somewhere, and you can't plug a scanner in it.. so I'm not sure that it's worth it, unless you're paying a premium for a rare or special model.

[roguetoaster]

Ah, but you can scan E30s, you just won't get a huge amount of info.

[nando]

I doubt many shops have an ADS interface. You can do the stomp test to get the same information, but most E30s can only report something like 5 error codes, and they are pretty vague. Motronic 1.3 doubled the error memory but it's still fairly useless..

[Julien]

I've never gotten a PPI for the over 50+ cars that i've owned. No bad surprises to date either. Here are the few guidelines that I use:

1. If the car is under valued.. why? Someone in the car industry rarely sells a car below market value unless there is something wrong with it they can't fix. be weary of it. On the other hand a car that has been in a family for many years and has some accumulated differed maintenance can be undervalued as they see their car worth X and the estimated repair bill is x+.
2. Nobody in the car world (dealers/mechanics/wholesalers) loves you and will make you a deal because you're nice. They'll often be "open" about what's wrong with the car to make it sound reasonable while hiding a true problem that is making the car not cost-effective to fix. They always have time to fix it, if they're dumping it there's a reason.
3. If it's too good to be true, it usually is.
4. Use your gut feeling. Sometimes you pick up a vibe about a car or deal that turns you off. Listen to that and don't let your excitement cloud your judgement.
5. Never rush yourself or left someone else rush you.
6. No car is worth letting the seller bully you. Both parties should be 50% in control, if they won't work with you, let them fly a kite.
7. Don't overlook some small defect you notice during a test drive. Rarely does a car run strangely, smell weird or look weird for no reason. "that's just how it is" is kind of a bs excuse.
8. Lastly, know the market and study up on the car you're buying


I'm sure I'm missing some

[Jokester]

I've never gotten a PPI for the over 50+ cars that i've owned. No bad surprises to date either. Here are the few guidelines that I use:

1. If the car is under valued.. why? Someone in the car industry rarely sells a car below market value unless there is something wrong with it they can't fix. be weary of it. On the other hand a car that has been in a family for many years and has some accumulated differed maintenance can be undervalued as they see their car worth X and the estimated repair bill is x+.
2. Nobody in the car world (dealers/mechanics/wholesalers) loves you and will make you a deal because you're nice. They'll often be "open" about what's wrong with the car to make it sound reasonable while hiding a true problem that is making the car not cost-effective to fix. They always have time to fix it, if they're dumping it there's a reason.
3. If it's too good to be true, it usually is.
4. Use your gut feeling. Sometimes you pick up a vibe about a car or deal that turns you off. Listen to that and don't let your excitement cloud your judgement.
5. Never rush yourself or left someone else rush you.
6. No car is worth letting the seller bully you. Both parties should be 50% in control, if they won't work with you, let them fly a kite.
7. Don't overlook some small defect you notice during a test drive. Rarely does a car run strangely, smell weird or look weird for no reason. "that's just how it is" is kind of a bs excuse.
8. Lastly, know the market and study up on the car you're buying


I'm sure I'm missing some

This. Exactly this. If you have a buddy that knows BMW’s well, or get a certified inspector to look at the car, you could always post it on R3V to ask for help as well

[Montanafan]

Had a PPI done by the indie BMW shop for about $300. A good bill of health, but a long list of repairs that could be done to bring it back to newish condition. Was about $7k of total repairs I think. I did 90% of the work myself, for minimal parts using the PPI as a guide. I feel very good for having an E30 specialty shop go over the car and pinpoint projects. Money well spent for me.

[e30davie]

Never done one. I've been burnt once on a car that i probably shouldn't have bought (i didn't lose money, but it wasn't exactly "Straight") not an e30. I dunno, e30 I expect to need work. Its 30yrs old. unless everything has been replaced (which admittedly does happen), then something is going to be needed to be done and a ppi inst going to pick that up.

bushes, brakes, suspension and small things, who cares about that. its all consumables and shit that i personally can identify and fix in my garage, in my opinion on an e30 all that you should really care about (pending asking price) is if the body, interior and paint is good.

Im pretty good at picking car problems as ive owned heaps of problems haha and know what to look for it. I mean if you are spending $4k and you can view it yourself i wouldn't even bother. if its not rusted, paint looks ok and it drives straight, everything else can be fixed with spanners.

if you are buying a $80k "mint" m3. Then yeah sure i would probably do a $200 pre purchase inspection. But i would only expect them to pickup big things. Major structural damage and repainted areas. It would not surprise me in the slightest if a PPI came back "good", and the day after i bought it the headgasket blew. There are just some things you cannot pickup in an inspection. But then if i have $80k to spend on a 30yr old car i probably don't care to much about an extra $200.

In saying all that, a ppi with a million problems might be a good bargaining tool for price reduction....