Big, bad BMW shop - What to do?

[Fidhle007]

I'm sorry, but there is NO WAY you could tell that the frame is tweaked 1/2" from those dark, crappy pictures. I don't care how attentive to detail you are, there is just no way. Maybe in person, but not from those pictures.

Ok, (we'll just pretend that you haven't seen the link in my sig) here's how I can tell that: The passenger door and fender don't line up, the passenger fender is twisted and the bumper is shifted about half an inch to the right. This car was hit pretty hard on the left side, pushing the bumper and in turn it's mount points, over. The fender/door gap is evidence that the fender mount points no longer reside in their original locations and the skewed top/bottom just add to that theory in my mind. I'd have to see it in person to really get the gist of it but just looking at the way the bumper sits even a monkey should be able to tell the frame is bent...

[Al Canuck]

Funny how all the shops are so bad until the actual techs chime in. Haven't heard a peep out of most of those guys since, have we?

Face it people, a lot of times your cars suck and there's very little we can do about that. We try, but that's over and above what you asked us to do in the first place so we have two choices: leave it fixed and get yelled at for breaking your shit, or fixing it and getting yelled at for fixing something that you didn't know needed to be fixed. Just because you've never been under your car to know how much it's fucked up, doesn't mean it's not fucked up. We're here to provide a service for you and if you don't like how we do it, why don't you try it yourself? And just so you know, on average it takes about twice as long to fix something that's been "repaired" by someone who didn't know what they were doing than it does for me to just fix it in the first place...

[/RANT]

:):):) Excellent post! Having been a tech for 15ish years now, and a BMW indi shop owner for the past 2, I hear, and feel every word of that little rant.

I had a 99 318is(E36, Canada only) in my shop last week. It came over to me from a local wrecker, who also does rebuilds of insurance wrecks. I never should have taken it in, but I did. The entire front end of the car had been replaced, from the firewall forward. After the work, the trans(4L30E GM) onlt had 2nd and 3rd gear, as well as an ASC light on, and a trans program light. My OTC scan tool wouldn't communicate with the car, windows had problems, doors would lock EVERY time you close the door, battery kept going flat, etc. Just a complete and total wreck, that should have been parted and crushed.

I spent many hours on it, doing old school diagnostics, but nothing came up. Tried good used Trans controllers, new ECM, good used ABS/ASC controller,etc. In the end, I suggested he take it to the local dealer, and see what they could do with it. He declined, due to cost, and took it to another indi shop. I spoke with the owner of the other shop today, and gave him my findings. He agreed that the car was a wreck, and doubted they could fix it either. Just a nightmare car to work on, way too many pre-existing problems, and not much I could do with it. I feel bad, because I'm a BMW specialist, and if anyone can fix this thing, it should be me. But it was not to be. In the end, I'm only human, and can only do so much, for cars like this. Frustrating part of this job, isn't it?

To the OP, you owe Boyd an apology. The damage you can create, in a single thread like this, could harm their business for years. Not cool at all. I've lived that scenario myself, and it really really sucked.

BTW, we also have an open door policy in my shop. Within reason, of course, but many of my customers are enthusiasts(many are R3V members), and they want to see whats going on. Its fine with me, I prefer an educated client.

[Van Westervelt]

Here is one that might help. :) (Spec's car)

[Fidhle007]

:):):) Excellent post! Having been a tech for 15ish years now, and a BMW indi shop owner for the past 2, I hear, and feel every word of that little rant.

I had a 99 318is(E36, Canada only) in my shop last week. It came over to me from a local wrecker, who also does rebuilds of insurance wrecks. I never should have taken it in, but I did. The entire front end of the car had been replaced, from the firewall forward. After the work, the trans(4L30E GM) onlt had 2nd and 3rd gear, as well as an ASC light on, and a trans program light. My OTC scan tool wouldn't communicate with the car, windows had problems, doors would lock EVERY time you close the door, battery kept going flat, etc. Just a complete and total wreck, that should have been parted and crushed.

I spent many hours on it, doing old school diagnostics, but nothing came up. Tried good used Trans controllers, new ECM, good used ABS/ASC controller,etc. In the end, I suggested he take it to the local dealer, and see what they could do with it. He declined, due to cost, and took it to another indi shop. I spoke with the owner of the other shop today, and gave him my findings. He agreed that the car was a wreck, and doubted they could fix it either. Just a nightmare car to work on, way too many pre-existing problems, and not much I could do with it. I feel bad, because I'm a BMW specialist, and if anyone can fix this thing, it should be me. But it was not to be. In the end, I'm only human, and can only do so much, for cars like this. Frustrating part of this job, isn't it?

To the OP, you owe Boyd an apology. The damage you can create, in a single thread like this, could harm their business for years. Not cool at all. I've lived that scenario myself, and it really really sucked.

BTW, we also have an open door policy in my shop. Within reason, of course, but many of my customers are enthusiasts(many are R3V members), and they want to see whats going on. Its fine with me, I prefer an educated client.

I'll drink to that, cheers brother!

[Fidhle007]

Here is one that might help. :) (Spec's car)

So, anyone want to talk frame damage NOW?

[Al Canuck]

So, anyone want to talk frame damage NOW?

YIKES! That thing is B-E-N-T!!! Look at the front bumper in relation to the valance. Wow, not a straight panel on that car. Guaranteed it's got a bent spindle, bent strut tube, something bent. Wonder how it drives?

Hey Spec, if you decide to part it out, and the hood is good, lemme know. Some asshole stole the emblem from mine, many years ago. The screwdriver caused some damage to the paint, and it's turned into a rust bubble. I'd love a nice Alpine hood to replace it with. I'll even drive to Portland for it.

Al

[StereoInstaller1]

Hey Al....you sound like a parts vulture.

You will fit in here just fine.

Great post, BTW. Y'know, the rant-ish one.

Luke

[Spec]

I really think you should get a look at the vehicle before we make any decisions the frame is bent. The reason the valence is not straight in that picture is because the valence isn't completely connected on the passenger side. That was the old, bent valence I bent relatively back into shape before purchasing this Mtech rep. The metal peice under the grill is bent on that end, and again the ill-fitting fender. From that shot though you can tell that the passenger fender fits cleanly as well as the bumper placement. In current photos the bumper is off a bit because of the hooks on the other side not allowing it to align properly.

Car drives perfect. No difference then before the accident, doesn't pull one bit, smooth, no chassis squeeks, nothin.

I'm going to try sanding and replacing with an OEM part this weekend and see how it looks. The passenger fender fits perfect, btw.

Edit: And I don't feel I owe an apology. This thread clearly states the suspension problem is not Boyd's fault. The ABS is still not working.

[WillisE30]

Now you're a body expert too...

[Al Canuck]

Now you're a body expert too...

You can learn ANYTHING, by hanging out on the intrawebz long enough.

Spec, you sure as hell DO owe Boyd an apology. Not everyone who read your first post, read the entire thread, I bet. Pretty likely someone read the first one, and thought "Hmmm, guess I'll avoid that place now". Perhaps if they stuck through all 7 pages of this, they'de see you're a whiny child, and it was your fault all along, but if they didn't read it all, your post has now left a bad taste in their mouth, towards Boyd.

This kind of shit is PRECISELY why you seldom see shop owners and vendors posting on message boards. Not worth the headaches. Ugghh

How about that hood, wanna sell it?

[Massive Lee]

Beware Al. Spec is going to call you "kid"... It hurts to be called a kid by a 22 year insurance expert.

[Al Canuck]

A 22 year old insurance expert, eh? Well, I'm a 32 year old pain in the ass, stubborn fuck, so I think I can take him.

[Fidhle007]

A 22 year old insurance expert, eh? Well, I'm a 32 year old pain in the ass, stubborn fuck, so I think I can take him.

It's cool man, I got your back.

[UNHCLL]

Face it people, a lot of times your cars suck and there's very little we can do about that. We try, but that's over and above what you asked us to do in the first place so we have two choices: leave it fixed and get yelled at for breaking your shit, or fixing it and getting yelled at for fixing something that you didn't know needed to be fixed. Just because you've never been under your car to know how much it's fucked up, doesn't mean it's not fucked up. We're here to provide a service for you and if you don't like how we do it, why don't you try it yourself? And just so you know, on average it takes about twice as long to fix something that's been "repaired" by someone who didn't know what they were doing than it does for me to just fix it in the first place...

[/RANT]

Sorry man, I'm not buying that.

Any shop worth its tools weight in gold will contact a client before proceeding upon finding problems like you list. When the item is above and beyond something like a "faulty" ABS sensor (example), most reputable shops will call the owner and address the issue... making them aware of all potential costs,issues,remedies involved for the following:

1) Work around the issues, and do nothing
2) Repair the issues as best as possible within reasonable budget
3) Repair items as needed

JMHO,
Chris

[Fidhle007]

Sorry man, I'm not buying that.

Any shop worth its tools weight in gold will contact a client before proceeding upon finding problems like you list. When the item is above and beyond something like a "faulty" ABS sensor (example), most reputable shops will call the owner and address the issue... making them aware of all potential costs,issues,remedies involved for the following:

1) Work around the issues, and do nothing
2) Repair the issues as best as possible within reasonable budget
3) Repair items as needed

JMHO,
Chris

Actually you're right but we're saying basically the same thing. I mis-typed and should have said "leave it broken..." I'm stating the extreme end of it though, thankfully our customer base is made up of pretty decent people but there is always going to be someone who, when we inform them of a problem that we found, will make a fuss about it not being there before when in reality they're just oblivious to most things automotive.