Big, bad BMW shop - What to do?

[einstein57]

Could just be a coincidence that one of your ABS sensors went bad during the time it was at their shop. Don't they need to run an ohm meter on each sensor while spinning each wheel or something like that. The one that has a different reading gets replaced and your done right. If they all have the same reading then ABS brain at your local junk yard.

[Van Westervelt]

Let me fill you in on what happened.



I took my E30 into Boyd Motor Werk in downtown Portland, OR to have some work done. I had Koni shocks, Vogtland springs, stock control arms, and M3 bushings replaced. I also had them replace the brake pads, rotors, and sensors. I was a little agitated, though not upset, when I received my car back 12 days later instead of the quoted 2 days.



When I got my car back, I noticed a couple problems. 1st, the ABS light was on as soon as I got in the car. Huh, why would nobody even look at the dash? 2nd, the camber on my front passenger side was horrible, the top of the wheel was an entire inch or two in from the bottom of the wheel. I called the shop and let them know I was experiencing the problems. I took my car back into the shop yesterday to have the two problems fixed, assumingly free of charge, since I already paid for them to be put together correctly.



Gary at Boyd Motor Werk called me back today, and told me 2 things:



1) They don't know what's up with ABS. Their computer isn't 'connecting' with my car, and they can't see anything in the open that would be wrong. He doesn't want to spend more time on this and thinks he isn't responsible, so he says he can look more intensively at it "on my bill". I think he's being too lazy to find the problem and wants to be paid for it.



2) There is no camber adjustment on E30's and other BMW's. Because of this, he thinks there might be something bent. He wants to take it to a alignment shop "on my bill" to determine if it was his fault or mine. Seems to me like if anything is bent, it's HIS fault. I dropped the car off without a camber problem, he gave it back with a camber problem. Seems simple, yea?











My question is, what should I do with this guy? Its pretty obvious the things were his fault, as they're new problems, but he's not recognizing it saying I "could have crashed the car prior to him having it". Bullshit. No problem before, problem after. I am thinking of calling him and telling him to fix it with no cost to me since I paid to have it working, not broken. If it's broken, it should be his shops responsibility to fix it. Right?



I've never had a shop try to do this to me and I don't know if I should actually be responsible for splitting anything or paying for him to do more work on trying to find the problems. If he does not fix it, is there recourse I have to force his shop to fix it?

It is not a bent control arm because I had both control arms replaced with brand new parts. If it is bent, they bent it.



I was advised elsewhere to have a seperate shop take a look at it that I choose, somewhat like Europeanplates answered. I think I am going to make a phone call tomorrow and mention that.



Thanks for the opinions - still interested in hearing more. The BBB will definitely be notified if there is not a good result to this matter.

So, 1st off, yes, all of the parts were brand spankin new, including control arms and M3 bushings. He did go out yesterday and check himself (the owner) to make sure the parts were installed correctly. He also said he didn't realize how bad the camber was until he actually looked at it (derr).



I picked my car up today, and I have an appointment Monday morning with AR in Lake Oswego. Talked with David up there. I'm going to have them align the car (this is something Boyd never did) for toe and check the camber readout. I'm also going to have them doublecheck everything is installed properly. If anything comes back as Boyds fault, I will kindly ask them to repair it free of charge. If they refuse, I will report them to BBB and spread the word. I would think if another shop places blame directly at them, that they'll (Boyd) fix it for me.



The camber is ONLY really bad on the front passenger wheel. That's it. I'll try to take a picture tonight. I relaize lowering the car will add a bit of camber, but where it's at now is absurd. It honestly looks like something is bent on that wheel.

Here are pictures of the show of camber on this car. Excuse the condition and cleanliness, but look at the camber of the front passenger wheel. Do you see what I see? I'll get a couple angles later maybe - ran out of battery. It's not as easy to see on the 14" steelies, but on my 16's or my new 17's we're talking severe tire wear? This angle doesn't show it the best.



This was not there when I gave it to the shop.





Driver side:





Passenger side:





Driver side:





Passenger side:

The vehicle was in an accident on the driver side front corner, but it's the other side in question. And the grills/hood aren't really off it's just the fender is a piece of crap (have the part to replace it). Haven't measured anything myself yet but I should have answers as to all of the alignment specs by tuesday. ::crosses fingers ::

I do think that this all was caused by the accident, and novice/shoddy body repairs done in a garage without ever truly being inspected after your curb drifting accident.

-edit-
My experience with Boyd's wasnt great, but not shady by any means. ABS is probably just an unplugged sensor.

[Van Westervelt]

This is how I can see it being caused, and yes it will be amplified by lowering it, so you may not have seen it until now.

[Jand3rson]

Curt, those illustrations are AMAZING.

[Van Westervelt]

Its a rough depiction, but it just shows how the impact could cause the issues at hand.

Why thank you Mr. Anderson, took me all of 3 minutes. :)

[jdaigner]

I've had nothing but great experiences w/ Boyd's.....They even went out of their way on pricing for me when I told them I could have provided parts cheaper than they quoted w/ my business license.

I'd bet money on something from the wreck being your current problem. Just my $.02

[atomic]

Yeah after seeing your pictures that you provided. It to me looks like you need to apologize to the shop and have the car put on a frame machine and see whats up. It does have some serious body alignment issues from the accident and you could have multiple things wrong. Bent sturt assemblies, bent sub frame, bent frame rails, etc etc ...

[WillisE30]

I love the blanket distrust people have for shops and mechanics in general. The reality is more of the problems than people would like to admit are based on the customer misunderstanding the issue at hand.

[Farbin Kaiber]

I love the blanket distrust people have for shops and mechanics in general. The reality is more of the problems than people would like to admit are based on the customer misunderstanding the issue at hand.

If only I could post a sign in my shop with your words. Once I got yelled at because at the end of the transaction the customer was pissed because he didnt get new keys after I charged him for new ignition wires.

[xLibelle]

I have in mind a post from two months ago when a member gave shit to a windshield installer because the technician did not glue the windshield to the gasket and the gasket to the frame of the car like it is done with M3s... We all make mistakes in our assessments. Sometimes, wrongfully blaming a shop can have disastrous effects on its reputation...

blah blah blah blah wtf man. i never meant for glue to be used. I meant that he didnt intend on using Butyl or 3M Glazing and Bedding Compound so it wasnt going to happen. He was worthless and an ass towards me so I removed him from fucking up my shit!
Since then, I had a reputable company deliver the glass and describe many details regarding proper install methods and techniques. None of which did the original installer intend.

So dont use my issue as an example of wrongful blame!

/OT rant

[Spec]

The car is going in tomorrow to have everything checked, and as I've said numerous times in this thread already if it's determined to be his fault I will kindly ask him to fix it. If it is not, it's my own bill. I even gave the car back to Boyds to have them check it out and tell me what could be the problem. He has suggested to take it into a shop to determine alignment, which I am doing. I had a long chat with him when I picked up the car, told him there were no hard feelings, I was happy with all the other work done to my car, and that I would report back to him on the findings of the alignment.

So there is no need for a couple of you to be flaming me about libel towards their shop. This thread was started as all threads are on the internet, with the intent of solving a problem I am having. When the shop can't explain to me the illustrations or possibilities you all have shared here, how am I supposed to know?

[smonkbmw]

So there is no need for a couple of you to be flaming me about libel towards their shop. This thread was started as all threads are on the internet, with the intent of solving a problem I am having. When the shop can't explain to me the illustrations or possibilities you all have shared here, how am I supposed to know?

of course there is a reason to flame, you started this thread with this.....

My question is, what should I do with this guy? Its pretty obvious the things were his fault, as they're new problems, but he's not recognizing it saying I "could have crashed the car prior to him having it". Bullshit. No problem before, problem after. I am thinking of calling him and telling him to fix it with no cost to me since I paid to have it working, not broken. If it's broken, it should be his shops responsibility to fix it. Right?

I've never had a shop try to do this to me and I don't know if I should actually be responsible for splitting anything or paying for him to do more work on trying to find the problems. If he does not fix it, is there recourse I have to force his shop to fix it?

and then later on you let on to wrecking the car, which he pointed out from the beginning. i say flame on or close the thread cause you deserve it.

[WillisE30]

The backpeddling is strong in here...

[Fidhle007]

Funny how all the shops are so bad until the actual techs chime in. Haven't heard a peep out of most of those guys since, have we?

Face it people, a lot of times your cars suck and there's very little we can do about that. We try, but that's over and above what you asked us to do in the first place so we have two choices: leave it broken and get yelled at for breaking your shit, or fixing it and getting yelled at for fixing something that you didn't know needed to be fixed. Just because you've never been under your car to know how much it's fucked up, doesn't mean it's not fucked up. We're here to provide a service for you and if you don't like how we do it, why don't you try it yourself? And just so you know, on average it takes about twice as long to fix something that's been "repaired" by someone who didn't know what they were doing than it does for me to just fix it in the first place...

[/RANT]

[Spec]

The 'wreck' wasn't that bad. I clipped the front corner of the driver side fender with a wall. It damaged the bumper, valance, and driver side fender. No part of the frame was touched, lucky me. That's not to say that it couldn't be out of perfect alignment, but just mentioning the damage from the wreck wasn't as severe as some may be imagining. The wheel/suspension was untouched during the wreck.

I am in no way backpeddling. I have two problems that were not there before I gave it to the shop. I am following their suggestions to fix one of the problems (camber), the other one (ABS light) they tried connecting their computer to, didn't connect, and left me with on 'oh well' response. Even IF somehow the frame was bent from such a small accident and the camber issue is my fault, my ABS system is still not working post their work.

The car was dropped off at AR, a different shop recommended by members of this baord, this morning. They will be getting everything aligned today, as well as replacing my muffler with a Magnaflow. I am waiting on mounting my rims until winter is through. They should have an answer for me later today/tomorrow.