Home Made Petrol/Hydrogen Hybrid $$$ saver

[Draccent]

how about steam power? :rofl:

[Garageaholic]

People are doing this and their HHO systems are sucking ~72W of energy at the MAX. C'mon people, that's like having an extra speaker in your stereo system.

If people are doing this and seeing 20%-30% MPG increases in their engine, then I think that the HHO energy is waaay more efficient for the engine than the strain put on the alternator to produce a measly extra 72W of power.

I think I'm gonna at least give this a try.

[xLibelle]

damn frank... i cant believe you brought this back, LOL

isnt this pretty much just water injection? Forget the whole energising water for a minute. I dont know that you could get what's suggested out of water injection alone, but if your mixture is right and the injectors are installed properly and the tuning is smart, I'm sure youd get a lot from it.

[Garageaholic]

LOL

I thought that water injection was injected in the intake manifold for Turbo-application cars in order to suck the heat from the manifold, therefore decreasing the engine temperature. I think they're unrelated issues. I'm not too familiar with the process though.

[SpecM]

oh noes!

A friend of mine (who's German, btw) rigged up a hyrogen-injection system on his 1986 Dodge Ramcharger with a 360. I was helping him with the electronics and found that the system draws 36 amps of current. That's a fair amount. Physics math: Watts = V*A... so with a 12.5 volt vehicle, it drawing 450 watts (12.5*36)!

I don't think anyone honesly gains 20-30% in fuel economy, either.

And you are correct, water injection is totaly different

[whiltebeitel]

Sport Compact Car (Hate all you want, at least they do track-oriented stuff) had an article about how this injection is a bunch of BS, basically summing up all the points made here.

[Garageaholic]

oh noes!

A friend of mine (who's German, btw) rigged up a hyrogen-injection system on his 1986 Dodge Ramcharger with a 360. I was helping him with the electronics and found that the system draws 36 amps of current. That's a fair amount. Physics math: Watts = V*A... so with a 12.5 volt vehicle, it drawing 450 watts (12.5*36)!

I don't think anyone honesly gains 20-30% in fuel economy, either.

And you are correct, water injection is totaly different

Yes, but that is the specific system that he set up. You can design your electolyzer to draw only 2 to 3 amps or 20 to 30 amps. It depends on:

1. How much heat is "too much" heat generated.
2. How much HHO you want produced.
3. How much current draw you want from the system.

You can design it by using Stainless Steel wire, rods, parallel plates...etc. The more Cathode/Anode surface area you have with the water, the more current is drawn by the system. Depending on how you set it up, your results will vary for the values of Calories of heat generated, moles of HHO produced, and Amperage drawn from the system.

[whiltebeitel]

One the molecular level, this is not efficient at all, you'd be better served by hooking up a MegaSquirt to fine-tune your stock map for more mileage.

[SpecM]

Yes, but that is the specific system that he set up. You can design your electolyzer to draw only 2 to 3 amps or 20 to 30 amps. It depends on:

1. How much heat is "too much" heat generated.
2. How much HHO you want produced.
3. How much current draw you want from the system.

You can design it by using Stainless Steel wire, rods, parallel plates...etc. The more Cathode/Anode surface area you have with the water, the more current is drawn by the system. Depending on how you set it up, your results will vary for the values of Calories of heat generated, moles of HHO produced, and Amperage drawn from the system.

Yes that is true, but the system still doesn't work, no matter the size. OK, so if you decrease the size/draw, you will decrease yeild. Less HHO yeild, less power... anyway...

There are no free rides in physics, you cannot create energy out of water. All of you should be arrested for disobaying the laws of themodynamics :giggle:

[Garageaholic]

Lol... I AM an engineer, so I understand the laws. I guess I'm just trying to find an easy way to save some dough :)

[Borat]

I had some dude come into a shop I worked at and asked us to make some of those hydrogen convertors, worked the same way as the falcon one from the sounds of it. I pretty much said the same thing as the others- it takes more energy than you get. There was no doubt that it could make hydrogen (or some other explosive gas) but I was always sceptical of the quantities and energy cost. Still this guy was was adament that by hooking it up to your intake manifold you got over 50% fuel saving. I left the job before I got a chance to actually try it for myself.

[TwoJ's]

Sigh. Physics should be a required class in public schools. And basic thermodynamics should be an option or be part of the physics class.

[netcsk]

the trick is to use the nuclear power to charge batteries (electric vehicles) make hydrogen (fuel cells) etc etc etc. what happens with the waste is something that i don't know, all i know its that by all human relative terms, it lasts forever.

I feel it is my duty to respond to this, since I work in the field (much like you work in the field that you've been defending in this thread).
The radiation of spent fuel only takes ~400 years to start outputting the same radiation as before it was pulled out of the ground.

Also, I'm working on a Hydrogen conversion right now (converting a gasoline engine to run on hydrogen). The trick is to convert it off-board where the conversion is cheap (electricity is cheap coming from your home) and store it in tanks. It becomes easier when you're using a truck. Of course, 5k-10k psi tanks aren't all that safe in the bed of a truck. You also have huge safety concerns from the size of the Hydrogen atom. Leaks can be very prevalent, and due to the wide combustion range of Hydrogen, they can also be very dangerous.

Blah blah blah. I'm done.

[SpecM]

Also, I'm working on a Hydrogen conversion right now (converting a gasoline engine to run on hydrogen). The trick is to convert it off-board where the conversion is cheap (electricity is cheap coming from your home) and store it in tanks. It becomes easier when you're using a truck. Of course, 5k-10k psi tanks aren't all that safe in the bed of a truck. You also have huge safety concerns from the size of the Hydrogen atom. Leaks can be very prevalent, and due to the wide combustion range of Hydrogen, they can also be very dangerous.

what you're talking about is different than the hydrogen injection. This is pure hydrogen combution, like BMW did with the 760h. This may work, as long as you can effeciently collect the hydrogen.

I'm sure you knew that already, I really just said it for everyone else's benifit!

[etxxz]

I feel it is my duty to respond to this, since I work in the field (much like you work in the field that you've been defending in this thread).
The radiation of spent fuel only takes ~400 years to start outputting the same radiation as before it was pulled out of the ground.

Also, I'm working on a Hydrogen conversion right now (converting a gasoline engine to run on hydrogen). The trick is to convert it off-board where the conversion is cheap (electricity is cheap coming from your home) and store it in tanks. It becomes easier when you're using a truck. Of course, 5k-10k psi tanks aren't all that safe in the bed of a truck. You also have huge safety concerns from the size of the Hydrogen atom. Leaks can be very prevalent, and due to the wide combustion range of Hydrogen, they can also be very dangerous.

Blah blah blah. I'm done.

Hey Excellent! ; / Can you talk a little about your project? i've seen a couple pickups in person with this conversion got a lot of ideas from them i'll laugh if it was you/your Co.

We are building a fuel-cell/battery scion XB right now using a small dynatech 1.8kg H2 @ 5ksi tank. est range of 160-180mi

As for the leaks, yes, leaks are easier and usually components have special seals/components for this high pressure H2 applicatoin...BUT a hydrogen fire is waay safer than a gasoline fire. Common misperception. Hydrogen doesnt radiate heat like gas, vents vertically and dissipates REAL fast making the flame much safer. Its actually a SAE J2600 regulation to have a hydrogen vent at the highest point of the car ;)

all the tanks i know that are DOT rated have a solenoid valve where all the lines tie into and its also has capabilities to connect to car emergency signals such that if anything happens, the valve instantaniously empties the tank (also a req for DOT) The BMW 760h has one at the top and one at the bottom of the car incase it flips over!! ..it also has one at the back bumper for temperature changes



after 1 min of fuel ignition. where would you rather be?

people still talking about HHO here? geez...