250 hp 325is

[burtonownz]

Although everyone is saying to go with forced induction, I say that a good route is N/A. Although it will ultimately be harder and cost more money, the gains on knowledge of your engine, and internal combustion in general, will be great and, in my opinion, well worth it. This would include a complete rebuild including massive head work. I've seen an M20 putting out near 500 flywheel horsepower. Granted, this engine was on a racing boat and it was only meant to run for handfuls of minutes at a time, it IS possible. I wanted to modify the M20 for a long time but I've changed my focus and would rather modify the M42 for the N/A route simply because it's DOHC.

However, if you're trying to get the greatest horsepower gains using the least amount of money and with the least amount of work, doing an engine swap or turbocharging the engine would be a good. I'm not trying to discount the the hard work that people put into their cars going the swap and FI route, but much more base knowledge can be gained by building a high-revving N/A engine and then tuning it with standalone engine management such as MoTeC.

Good luck and I hope I gave some alternate perspective,
Charlie

[Wes325]

Of course FI might be cheaper, until you rebuild the engine.

IMHO, your best bet is do do a M50/S50 conversion this has the most bang for the buck.

I think that turboing the M20 would be significantly cheaper than the S50 swap.
An M50 would not hang with a boosted M20. The S50, however, is a different story.
How long would a strong, stock block M20 last with 8-9psi?
________
half-baked

[modifiede30]

Just and idea off the top of my head would be a 3.0L stroker, port and polished head, multithrottle intake (extrude honed if not already done), SS MAF, larger exhaust valves, larger injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, extreme cam (302), header and track pipe, fan delete, and AC delete.


the problem is, all that *might* give you 200rwhp, but you'd have a ton of torque.. I'd go forced induction if you want to build an M20.

Actually, a good bit of the items above might reduce torque, such as the porting and polishing, intake, exhaust valves, and cam. All of these items are typically designed to increase flow volume, which usually results in lost air velocity. For torque, you need velocity. HP requires volume. But, I think those would all create a very well balanced engine that has a nice consistent powerband - more torque down low, more hp up high. I'd be worried about tuning such an engine since the balance would be key. Also, I'm not a fan of 3.0L anythign in an m20. 2.8L is as far as I'd want to take the block for durability reasons.

[GreekDriver]

I think that turboing the M20 would be significantly cheaper than the S50 swap.
An M50 would not hang with a boosted M20. The S50, however, is a different story.
How long would a strong, stock block M20 last with 8-9psi?

A strong M20 block with 10PSI of boost would last forever. There are stories of the M20 with tons of miles on it and the factory cross-thatch is still noticeable on the cylinder walls!

The S50 is the same story. A turbo charged E30 M20 would make a NA E30 S50 look like a Honda Civic...

Do people not understand that turbocharging the M20 gives you MASSIVE results? TCD has what, 320rwhp? His kit is $5125 or something? Go get an S50+trans and mod it so it puts out 320rwhp and do it for under $5125 dollars... It won't happen. The M20 is ALOT cheaper than the S50, and a turbo kit will put it well beyond where an S50 can reach naturally aspirated for for the price range of $5125(Shit, the engine and transmission are around $4000. leaves you 1000 for mods, you can't get 100 more hosepower with bolt on mods for under 1000 on the S50!!!!!) In addition, if you blow your M20 you get another for what? 400/500 bucks... Blow your S50 and you're SCREWED!!!!!!

Engine swaps are a SEVERE waste of money for the E30 with the M20B25, please don't talk about them, they make me angry. Unless you get free motors, they're not worth in! The M20 is an AWESOME engine that can put out GOOD power safely under boost.

Sorry to sound angry, but this whole S50 praise is KILLING me. Basically every engine BMW made after the M20 is a pansy engine that can't take alot of boost without severe modification. Naturally Aspirated is a TOTALLY different story, but if you asked me if I would want an S54 or an M20 or M30 running 16lbs of boost, I'd say the M20 or M30...

If it was up to me EVERY BMW would have an M20 or an M30 with a turbo setup. Shit the M20 is lighter than the S54, way cheaper to produce, puts more power out(TCD gets 320rwhp remember?) and won't blow up like the S54...

This post was not directed at you Wes325, so I apologize if I came off as flaming, it's directed to everybody.

[Chris E30 Cab]

I guess you like turbo M20's then :roll:

[Den]

The M20 is ALOT cheaper than the S50, and a turbo kit will put it well beyond where an S50 can reach naturally aspirated for for the price range of $5125(Shit, the engine and transmission are around $4000. leaves you 1000 for mods, you can't get 100 more hosepower with bolt on mods for under 1000 on the S50!!!!!) In addition, if you blow your M20 you get another for what? 400/500 bucks... Blow your S50 and you're SCREWED!

Sure, you *can* get well over 300hp with a turbo, but do you really need more than 300hp in a 2800-lb car? Could you put the power to the pavement, or would you be spending a lot of time spinning your wheels and trying to stay out of the ditch?

FWIW, I too would be a bit concerned about the longevity of the newer motors with 24v and double VANOS, but turbos aren't perfect.

If it was up to me EVERY BMW would have an M20 or an M30 with a turbo setup.

Some people don't like the non-linear power delivery associated with most turbo systems.

Turbo's can give much more power, but that's if you *like* forced induction.

car is a ROCKET ship, but he has had a HARD time getting it that way, there was a LOT of speed bumps along the way. Right now, he still can not get that power to the ground! He needs 9in rear wheels!

[TCD]

Sure, you *can* get well over 300hp with a turbo, but do you really need more than 300hp in a 2800-lb car?

Yes. In fact it isn't really enough. I'd like more like 350rwhp.

Could you put the power to the pavement, or would you be spending a lot of time spinning your wheels and trying to stay out of the ditch?

My e30 puts the power down with standard 225/50/15 tires. We also installed a 2.93LSD.

Some people don't like the non-linear power delivery associated with most turbo systems.

Yawn, what's not to like? It's extremely easy to drive. It's very nice and smooth. Similar to a n/a motor with twice the power.

EVOIIIM3 wrote:
car is a ROCKET ship, but he has had a HARD time getting it that way, there was a LOT of speed bumps along the way. Right now, he still can not get that power to the ground! He needs 9in rear wheels!

No, he needs to change the rear diff. Matt is still running a 3.73LSD with his turbo. As soon as he installs a 2.93 he'll enjoy the car much more and it will be much quicker in the lower gears!

Chris E30 Cab wrote:
Turbo's can give much more power, but that's if you *like* forced induction.

I would like to meet the person who rode in or drove one of our cars and said they didn't like it. It'll never happen! Even my wife likes the power delivery although she admits it's a bit scarey. Anyone on this board more of a wimp than my wife? LOL

[/quote]TCD has what, 320rwhp?

Nope, 289rwhp/300rwtq @ 14.5psi

Todd

[Chris E30 Cab]

Sounds like your wife likes turbos, lucky you........I am quite certain I don't, cheers ;)

[TCD]

Sounds like your wife likes turbos, lucky you........I am quite certain I don't, cheers

You have not ridden in one of our cars. My wife drives a 850 Turbo Wagon. She prefers her low hp Volvo to the 5er but doesn't mind driving the 325i.

Todd

[GreekDriver]

Yes. In fact it isn't really enough. I'd like more like 350rwhp.

Please tell us when you get there!

I'm going to by buying an M30 powered car very soon, is your kit available for the M30 yet? Please keep us posted, I think you have alot of future customers around here.

[burtonownz]

Man, I was just owned soo much. Not even a snide remark was thrown my way... (sniff sniff) :puppy:

[Den]

However, if you're trying to get the greatest horsepower gains using the least amount of money and with the least amount of work, doing an engine swap or turbocharging the engine would be a good.

Charlie

I think you answered your own question, Charlie. Sure, there's much to be learned by building your own motor, but not much interest in spending more $ than a motor swap or turbo would cost.

[Den]

Some people don't like the non-linear power delivery associated with most turbo systems.

Yawn, what's not to like? It's extremely easy to drive. It's very nice and smooth. Similar to a n/a motor with twice the power.

Todd

Typical turbo throttle response = similar to stock up to a certain throttle position and then 'hanging on for dear life' when the throttle goes past this point.

I'm not saying that your system behaves like this; I'm just saying that this is the typical turbo characterisitc to which some people object, because they are wimps or becasue they find this characteristic detrimental to lap times.

If you want to talk about your product's characteristics, perhaps you could share some details about what makes your system behave differently than a typical turbo.

[burtonownz]

Yeah, I sort of did. I was just hoping there was someone out there more interested in the knowledge behind modifying a car than by just getting more "bang for the buck."

Yea! Someone replied!

[Digitalwave]

Turbo lag is so overrated. How many of you have even ridden in a properly set up turbo vehicle?