The Official F1 2009 Thread

[Hick]

Why does everyone think so little of Massa? Think of the times where he was just dominant; hungary, brazil, valencia, singapore. The usual responce to this is 'well, hes awful in the wet' But dont forget he ran away with Monaco until Hamilton 'lucked' into a blown tire before the weather changed and a safety car.

IMO, Massa is up there with the best drivers. Alonso is the current best, then Hamilton Massa pretty close together.

[TDE30]

Why does everyone think so little of Massa? Think of the times where he was just dominant; hungary, brazil, valencia, singapore. The usual responce to this is 'well, hes awful in the wet' But dont forget he ran away with Monaco until Hamilton 'lucked' into a blown tire before the weather changed and a safety car.

IMO, Massa is up there with the best drivers. Alonso is the current best, then Hamilton Massa pretty close together.

If you are referring to Irish's post, I don't think he was saying he didn't like Massa, he was just saying that the superpowers (Massa, Räikkönen, Hamilton, and Alonso) don't always complement each other on one team (which is completely true.)

I used to hate Massa because I thought he was a sub-par driver in his Sauber days who got put into an extraordinary car and started showing results here and there. 2008 was when I finally realized he was actually a damn good little driver with a bit of hot head at times, but had much better car control skills than Hamilton.

Sorry, but I don't see how Alonso is the best. Good, maybe, but not the best driver currently in Formula One. If he was the best, he wouldn't have been 3rd and 5th (2007 and 2008, respectively) in the WDC. IMO, he is a very good driver with excellent control in inclimate weather, but throughout last year (with everyone saying he was the best driver and that he would sit stop the WDC,) he failed to perform solidly. Honestly, I'd say he is right there with Kubica, good driver but not the "best."

[z31maniac]

Sorry, but I don't see how Alonso is the best. Good, maybe, but not the best driver currently in Formula One. If he was the best, he wouldn't have been 3rd and 5th (2007 and 2008, respectively) in the WDC. IMO, he is a very good driver with excellent control in inclimate weather, but throughout last year (with everyone saying he was the best driver and that he would sit stop the WDC,) he failed to perform solidly. Honestly, I'd say he is right there with Kubica, good driver but not the "best."

Kubica doesn't have TWO WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Last year he was in a terrible car and still managed to win (once or twice?).

Ummm, exactly who was saying he was going to win WDC last year? All I remember is them saying what a great job he was doing with a terrible car.

[Hick]

Reasons i think Alonso is the best are his abilities to build a car through testing, engineering input, and a good know how of how the car works. He helped Renault become a more competitive team throughout the year. And if you compare his performance last year to his team mate [not saying Pique is any good] he slaughtered him at just about every race.

The 'Massa' comment was nothing more than the shit ive been getting for the past 2 or 3 years by being a Massa only fan. Sadly, i think last year may of been his one and only chance at a title... but who knows.

[hugh jass]

Reasons i think Alonso is the best are his abilities to build a car through testing, engineering input, and a good know how of how the car works. He helped Renault become a more competitive team throughout the year. And if you compare his performance last year to his team mate [not saying Pique is any good] he slaughtered him at just about every race.

The 'Massa' comment was nothing more than the shit ive been getting for the past 2 or 3 years by being a Massa only fan. Sadly, i think last year may of been his one and only chance at a title... but who knows.

if Alonso showed up at your house and wanted to have sex with you, would you?

[Hick]

No, i only put out for MS

[TDE30]

Kubica doesn't have TWO WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Last year he was in a terrible car and still managed to win (once or twice?).

Ummm, exactly who was saying he was going to win WDC last year? All I remember is them saying what a great job he was doing with a terrible car.

Chill out Sandy. I heard plenty of people saying that Alonso would be WDC this time last year. Many of them said that because he was back with Renault (the team he won two World Championships with.)

I'm not sure why you find my comparison with Kubica so appalling. They're both good, solid drivers who made the best of a sub-par car. And, as you may remember, Fernando only got two victories compared to Kubi's one (and Kubi finished 4th and Fernando finished 5th in the WDC last year.)



Joe, I'd say Massa will be putting up a fair fight this year. For the first time in a while, I am really looking forward to see how he gets on.

[e30pwr]

lols. this should be interesting. Having only watched the F1 for two years now the full legacy's and political moves of the teams have yet to make full sense to me. Sub'd.

[Hick]

I'm not sure why you find my comparison with Kubica so appalling. They're both good, solid drivers who made the best of a sub-par car. And, as you may remember, Fernando only got two victories compared to Kubi's one (and Kubi finished 4th and Fernando finished 5th in the WDC last year.)

One way to look at it is the compare teams


04 Robert Kubica 75
06 Nick Heidfeld 60

05 Fernando Alonso 61
12 Nelsinho Piquet 19

[devonjordan]

lols. this should be interesting. Having only watched the F1 for two years now the full legacy's and political moves of the teams have yet to make full sense to me. Sub'd.

Im in your boat

[z31maniac]

Chill out Sandy. I heard plenty of people saying that Alonso would be WDC this time last year. Many of them said that because he was back with Renault (the team he won two World Championships with.)

I'm not sure why you find my comparison with Kubica so appalling. They're both good, solid drivers who made the best of a sub-par car. And, as you may remember, Fernando only got two victories compared to Kubi's one (and Kubi finished 4th and Fernando finished 5th in the WDC last year.)



Joe, I'd say Massa will be putting up a fair fight this year. For the first time in a while, I am really looking forward to see how he gets on.

Any one who actually thought he'd have a shot at the title last year was dreaming. We all knew he was going to have to fix a shit car to be competitive with first, which he did.

Keep in mind I like Kubica, but 1) he does not have 2 WDC Championships, 2) he failed to help develop the car the last 1/3 of the season and turned into a whiny prima donna when Heidfeld starting going faster, 3) adding to number 2 its obvious there are few in the game who have Alonso's development/testing prowess, 4) BMW did not have a sub par car until the late part of the season.

So Alonso won, one more race and did both convincingly vs being gifted Canada. I know its racing and anything can happen, but we all know damn well Kubica would not have won had it not been for the pit stop fuck up that took out Raikonen and Hameelton.

No sand here Nancy, I'm just deconstructing your poor analysis.:-D

[z31maniac]

lols. this should be interesting. Having only watched the F1 for two years now the full legacy's and political moves of the teams have yet to make full sense to me. Sub'd.

You're on the right track, F1 is just as much about off the track politics and jockeying as it is about the racing and the show.

In reality, F1 is daytime drama for race fans.

[Hick]

So Alonso won, one more race and did both convincingly vs being gifted Canada.

singapore was a gift

[z31maniac]

singapore was a gift

Shhhhhhh

[TDE30]

Any one who actually thought he'd have a shot at the title last year was dreaming. We all knew he was going to have to fix a shit car to be competitive with first, which he did.

Keep in mind I like Kubica, but 1) he does not have 2 WDC Championships, 2) he failed to help develop the car the last 1/3 of the season and turned into a whiny prima donna when Heidfeld starting going faster, 3) adding to number 2 its obvious there are few in the game who have Alonso's development/testing prowess, 4) BMW did not have a sub par car until the late part of the season.

So Alonso won, one more race and did both convincingly vs being gifted Canada. I know its racing and anything can happen, but we all know damn well Kubica would not have won had it not been for the pit stop fuck up that took out Raikonen and Hameelton.

No sand here Nancy, I'm just deconstructing your poor analysis.:-D

Poor analysis, eh? Perhaps someone thinks a bit too highly of Alonso.

I'll be the first to admit that Kubica's perfromance was lackluster post-Canadian GP, albeit he did manage a few podiums after his initial win in Canada (I'd say his performance was on-again/off-again for the latter portion of the 2008 season.)

Kubica probably wouldn't have won the Canadian GP had Räikkönen and Hamilton not collided in the pit exit, but you can't take that win away from him. That is the way of racing, some stupid mistakes go unnoticed and others are costly, either way Kubica won the race fair and square.

Alonso's win at Signapore was a result of his team's strategists, they did a damn good job, but with his performance in Q2 he was certainly in no position to win the race. Had it not been for his teammate's crash and the clusterfuck that took place in the pits (Massa's stop, Kubica's penalty, etc.) I don't think that Alonso would have won it. And as for the Japanese GP, one must wonder if Alonso would have won if Massa and Hamilton (who finished 7th and 12th, respectively) weren't penalized, bear in mind Hamilton was the polesitter and Massa qualified 5th (right behind FA.)

Anyways, it seems like you are one to argue and I am done stating the facts, I'll let you get back to tugging it to your lifelike Fernando Alonso doll with realistic orifices.