333i

[CorvallisBMW]

I wouldn't say its better tech but more of a compromise or "best-fit" solution given the predicament. I mean modern BMW engines are also designed differently in terms of cooling allowing them to incorporate an electric fan (ie. synthetic oil, engine bay parts, additional bumper/fender/hood vents, wider front grills). If you compare an m20 or an m30 to any other modern BMW engine of the same displacement size, you'll realize how many parts are now high vacuum plastic components just to maintain a weight and temperature comparable to older generation engines. Plus, modern engines of the same displacement are designed with a wider surface area to dissipate heat better (which is why a 2.5l m54 looks a lot fatter-take up more engine bay room-than a 2.5l m20). An m54 just barely weighs a bit more than an m20 of the same size, but can you imagine if the weight and cooling inefficiency while using an electric fan if the m54 didn't use plastic molding for its water pump, intake manifold, valve cover, airbox, etc..? Overall, this certainly takes a lot of cooling work off an electric fan but probably at the cost of durability and reliability. I suppose andrew retain a mechanical fan for reliability purposes.

m54 engines way quite a bit less b/c of their aluminum block. And the surface area of the motor has no effect on it's heat dissipation ability, 99.9% of that is done through the cooling system. Not to mention that with all the plastic bits on the engine (such as the manifold, valve cover, etc) heat is held in much more so than on an all-metal motor like an m20.

Andrew, I can't remember, what made you decide to go with the m30b23/M1.1 instead of the b25/M1.3? Don't you loose like 40hp and gain a lot of complexity in the wiring/vacuum lines? Was is just availability of the motor?

[8380 Labs]

it looks to me like he took on a pretty large project and did a very thorough and clean job executing it.

he did all this at a pretty young age, while also apparently subjecting himself to endless ridicule from a lot of people who are old enough to be his dad. he stood his ground and did it his way, and it looks from here like it turned out pretty phenomenally. i know a lot of you guys throwing darts wouldn't do nearly as well in the same circumstances. half of you are probably sitting on bunk ass projects that will never get done yourselves.

i'm not normally the voice of reason when it comes to not making fun of people, but a lot of you guys just look like crybabies grasping at straws.

nice work andrew.

[xwill112x]

andrew, very clean work, althought i dont agree with your motives behind ruining the subframe. clean work dude for real, maybe start listening to the old goats around here that know they're shit. a electric fan is better than mechanical. other than that, a+ imo.

[bimma360]

Dude thats one of the cleanest freakin swaps I have ever seen. I would hope to see 4 pages of praise, and questions where we can all learn something. And even if some things arent ideal to you personally, you still learn something as an enthusiast. Isn't this what its all about anyway?

Dav

[Wh33lhop]

I wouldn't say its better tech but more of a compromise or "best-fit" solution given the predicament. I mean modern BMW engines are also designed differently in terms of cooling allowing them to incorporate an electric fan (ie. synthetic oil, engine bay parts, additional bumper/fender/hood vents, wider front grills). If you compare an m20 or an m30 to any other modern BMW engine of the same displacement size, you'll realize how many parts are now high vacuum plastic components just to maintain a weight and temperature comparable to older generation engines. Plus, modern engines of the same displacement are designed with a wider surface area to dissipate heat better (which is why a 2.5l m54 looks a lot fatter-take up more engine bay room-than a 2.5l m20). An m54 just barely weighs a bit more than an m20 of the same size, but can you imagine if the weight and cooling inefficiency while using an electric fan if the m54 didn't use plastic molding for its water pump, intake manifold, valve cover, airbox, etc..? Overall, this certainly takes a lot of cooling work off an electric fan but probably at the cost of durability and reliability. I suppose andrew retain a mechanical fan for reliability purposes.

What are you talking about? You are waaay overthinking this. Electric fans are more efficient for a reason: they don't draw any power when they're not needed. 95% of the time, your car will be cooled fine without any fan operation; it's only when you've been stopped at a light for more than a few minutes that you actually NEED extra airflow through the radiator. Why sap power from your engine at all times just for that once a day you're stuck in traffic?

You can get an electric fan that will flow PLENTY of CFM, easily more than enough to cool an M20 or M30 in the worst of conditions, for a hundred bucks (I nabbed a brand new 1600CFM SPAL for $30 shipped for my M50). And your point re: different cooling designs for later motors is completely irrelevant. A fan flows air through the radiator--that's all it does. As long as you have a fan that will push or pull enough air for your cooling system, all else is moot.

[Bimmerista]

Your car & the build looks great Andrew. Don't let anyone get you down.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them & sometimes they stink.

[Alpina]

Really nice all the way ,, superb job

salute

[z31maniac]

it looks to me like he took on a pretty large project and did a very thorough and clean job executing it.

he did all this at a pretty young age, while also apparently subjecting himself to endless ridicule from a lot of people who are old enough to be his dad. he stood his ground and did it his way, and it looks from here like it turned out pretty phenomenally. i know a lot of you guys throwing darts wouldn't do nearly as well in the same circumstances. half of you are probably sitting on bunk ass projects that will never get done yourselves.

i'm not normally the voice of reason when it comes to not making fun of people, but a lot of you guys just look like crybabies grasping at straws.

nice work andrew.

This.

[rcfanatic]

If you can afford to all of this with all of the tools required, why do you need to go to school? Amazing job, just seems like something one could afford after they get out of school.

[e30polak]

Damn there's a lot of flack in this thread. :shock:

I'll say this - this is one of the cleanest done cars on the forum.

Move that battery to the back ASAP! The m30 is heavy enough on it's own, no need to keep that much weight over the nose! :hitler:

[Iain]

Car looks great, and the swap looks clean (and I mean clean in the dirt-free sense).

Like Corvallis, I don't agree with the engineering behind the swap, but kudos to you for getting it running. Hopefully it gives you plenty of miles of happy motoring

[Japandrew73]

you decide to go with the m30b23/M1.1 instead of the b25/M1.3? Don't you loose like 40hp and gain a lot of complexity in the wiring/vacuum lines? Was is just availability of the motor?

I went with an M30b34 with M1.1 due to availability of the motor. The 1984 535i it came from had an engine fire in 2004 and was sent back for a factory rebuild and they did it the right way. A LOT of wear/tear items (save a few like the timing chain guide rails) didn't need to be replaced so this motor size/engine management was ideal. As well as the fact that M1.1 is what the 333i ran so I wanted the same wiring harness look to it.

And even if some things arent ideal to you personally, you still learn something as an enthusiast. Isn't this what its all about anyway?

EXACTLY! This project was awesome, and while e30's aren't exactly in the enthusiast market as high selling cars, practicing a project has prepared me for a much more substantial BMW to build and restore down the future. The point of the project was for knowledge and fun, and I received plenty of both!

[dude8383]

First and foremost, the car came out fantastic. Great job man.

Second, is that a/c high line new or did it come with the car?

[red911turbo]

Maybe 1 or 2, but 95+% are electric. e46, e60, e67, e90, e53, etc.... On and on, every 3, 5, 7, X, etc. has an electric fan. And I actually worked on them, not just read stuff on teh internetz. Hell even water pumps are electric now.

The quality of the work is excellent, no doubt. The motives/reasoning behind it are another story.

For the most part, manual transmission modern BMW's have only electric fans. Auto transmission cars have both mechanical and electric fan, I would assume because of the addition of a transmission fluid cooler.

Cheers,
Chris

[Japandrew73]

First and foremost, the car came out fantastic. Great job man.

Second, is that a/c high line new or did it come with the car?

I've "refurbished" my A/C lines and a dryer which are awaiting installation. The compressor clears the radiator fine, I just need a new compressor which is a winter project.