pics from wet day at Pocono

[JRKOUPE]

thnx........that was a good thread. ....... that is so tempting...but 5k-7k is lotsa cash.

[rwh11385]

It's hard to see, but do you still have most the interior in your car? A/C?

My buddies with the H&R race had completely stripped cars and were FAST. A sub-2600lb M20 car is quick. And a lot cheaper to build than a 2800lb M50/S50 car.

And what's done to the engine now? Chip? Mark D 93 octane might help some no matter which you could have now, and M50 injectors would help too with it.

[JRKOUPE]

is your rear diff and suspension noisy?.....

extremely. radio off. windows up..... i can barely hold a phone conversation sometimes. it's more of a whistle when the throttle is on. Maybe it is a noisy diff, but it may be everything together:

RTRS subframe and TA bushings, M coupe diff bushing, Redline fluid in the diff and tranny, urethane motor mounts, delrin shift carrier bushing (great upgrade), bimmerworld upgraded tranny mounts...... etc etc


H&R race / IE stage IIIs are a nice setup because you just put them in and use them, not having to worry about anything else. Konis are a bit better I read, but bsports are spec for NASA, so that possibility is always nice. My rates are only 300/475, so it's not much of a advantage right now.....but if I swap the rear to the front and get 650s for the back, it'd be serious then.

..could you tell me more about your delrin shift carrier upgrade?.....where to buy, what it did etc. And the diff bushing is removeable?.....is the m coupe item supposed to be higher durometer....that sounds intersting also..thnx!

[rwh11385]

I got mine from UUC and it wasn't that expensive $20 or something. You have to pretty much have the driveshaft off and the tranny mounts out and have to remove the "bitch clip" to put it in. But I was replacing the guibo anyway. My shifter went from slop to tight with installing it.

And the M coupe bushing is supposedly like $40, but someone else said $60 at the stealer. It can be pressed in/out of the differential mount. And it is stiffer than the stock one, but not being problematic as some people have had with the poly diff bushing.


You could do a few mods to the interior (like tear it out and the A/C and the trunk tar if not already.....my tar was 52.5lbs and pulled out easily without issues in the hot parking lot before an Auto-X), and some pick-me-ups to the engine, and get some cheap(er) speed there.

I've always thought a non-vanos M50 screamer would be great, but because of Auto-X probably just going with a MAF conversion and headers/exhaust. If you do want to plan the swap, then would be the time to do the shift carrier bushing, and m coupe diff bushing in the 3.73 you'd be getting. Analyze the Cost/Benefit of a swap, versus sticking to the M20 and putting maybe a little more $$ into the engine and car to make it faster/lighter. And think what's really the point of more power or even going faster??

Whitney kept his M20B25:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?highlight=whitney&t=22979

[JRKOUPE]

..engine is totally stock at this point. I wanted to get car on track asap so suspension was main priority. I see I just missed a Mark D GB. I have just learned about his chip.....so I am not sure if I would go Mark D or JC. Its hard to decide if a chip is even worth it , as I have read so many different view points. Injectors would be beneficial on a stock(other than chip and perhaps a 2.5 " custom exhaust) engine??




I will do guibo over winter so Ill do the delrin carrier then. You confused me when you said 3.73. Are you saying I would want to ditch my 4.10 if I did the engine swap?.....



Most of the interior remains. I wanted to see how car was on track before ripping stuff out. I agree that a 2600 lb M20 is alot cheaper than a 2800 lb M or S 50. AC is in but will be coming out. Thanks for all the tips......keep em coming :D

[JRKOUPE]

..you bring up a good point about the need for more speed and whats the point.



.its just that there are times on the track when being passed by bigger hp cars, that I get the urge............but there will always be faster cars. I guess the desire for more power never goes away.




getting it as light and tight as possible could be fun too.

[rwh11385]

I like the way you got out there with just suspension first. Next year will be a lot of fun when you start to THEN put some more stuff on and can feel the improvement, instead of just always having it all from the beginning. It's the right way to go about things - proper priorities!

Anyway, A CHIP IS SO VERY WORTH IT. I did one event without, and then one with....WOW, the straights felt so much shorter and I had less time to prepare for the next turn. And MOST valuable is the extended redline as I didn't want to upshift but I was limited in 3rd gear by revs.

After getting properly sized injectors for the task (M50 ones - 17.5lb), MARK D hands down. It just is better, torquier than Jim C's. And yes, with Mark's 93 Octane software the engine is wanting more fuel.....stock 14.7s (or at least long used ones) don't cut it.

With a M50 swap, 4.10 would be too short, so you'd be switching back to a 3.73 (or some a do even longer).

Rob Case (skafrog) has his car tipping the scales at like 2550. :shock: He was cutting up at the event I did with him. Add lightness. And a chip/injectors. Then down the road upgrade to stiffer springs.

[JRKOUPE]

You really make the chip sound like a huge imprv't so I will consider one strongly and I will look at Mark D's. You are right about more revs.... at Watkins Glen I wish I could have held 3 rd longer in many places.....





some great advice and thoughts here.......Ill keep you posted. Im prolly going to do hi flow 2.5" system( I want this for sound as much as anything , as car is too quiet for track work and I want to hear the engine at full tilt) , chip and consider the injectors. Ill also begin putting it on a diet; trunk tar was like 48 lbs. for me.........and again thnx!

[Skafrog]

a 4.10 is perfect with an m50 if you use the stock 260 tranny :twisted:

[JRKOUPE]

a 4.10 is perfect with an m50 if you use the stock 260 tranny :twisted:

still learning here........do you mean stock to the m50 or stock to the m 20?

[Charlie]

a 4.10 is perfect with an m50 if you use the stock 260 tranny :twisted:

still learning here........do you mean stock to the m50 or stock to the m 20?

The stock tranny for the the M20 is the 260 getrag. The stock box for the m50 motor has a 1:1 fifth, which would leave you bumping the redline at most tracks.

Would be a shitload of fun on smaller courses though.

-Charlie

[Charlie]

I like the way you got out there with just suspension first. Next year will be a lot of fun when you start to THEN put some more stuff on and can feel the improvement, instead of just always having it all from the beginning. It's the right way to go about things - proper priorities!

Anyway, A CHIP IS SO VERY WORTH IT. I did one event without, and then one with....WOW, the straights felt so much shorter and I had less time to prepare for the next turn. And MOST valuable is the extended redline as I didn't want to upshift but I was limited in 3rd gear by revs.

Heeter, I'm going to start charging you every time you quote me ;)

It is nice though. Towards the end of last year when I was getting real comfortable with the car, I began to say "man, it pushes like a pig on turn in, but adjusting the rear bar makes it way too twitchy, I think I need camber" Voila, dumped more camber in the front and the car turns in beautifully, allowing me to dial back on the rear swaybar which lets me get on the power sooner. Making independant tire pressure changes and having them achieve the result you desire is also a scary feeling. A realization that you just might understand what the hell you're doing.

It's funny with the chip, I'm actually considering going back to the stock unit. This is two fold really. I find myself riding the redline in third to 7k in a number of turns, and can't force myself to shortshift for them. I truthfully want to swap to a 4.10 to give me a more ususable 4th gear, but instead I'm going to play cheap bastard and go back to a stock chip, forcing me to lose 600 rpms and force my hand in learning to shortshift.

Being cheap forces better racecraft.

-Charlie

[Digitalwave]

a 4.10 is perfect with an m50 if you use the stock 260 tranny :twisted:

still learning here........do you mean stock to the m50 or stock to the m 20?

The stock tranny for the the M20 is the 260 getrag. The stock box for the m50 motor has a 1:1 fifth, which would leave you bumping the redline at most tracks.

Would be a shitload of fun on smaller courses though.

-Charlie

I couldn't fathom how short first gear, hell even second, would be with a 4.10 and an E36 gearbox. First gear is almost too short even with my lightly modded M20 and M20 gearbox with a 4.10 LSD.

[Charlie]

a 4.10 is perfect with an m50 if you use the stock 260 tranny :twisted:

still learning here........do you mean stock to the m50 or stock to the m 20?

The stock tranny for the the M20 is the 260 getrag. The stock box for the m50 motor has a 1:1 fifth, which would leave you bumping the redline at most tracks.

Would be a shitload of fun on smaller courses though.

-Charlie

I couldn't fathom how short first gear, hell even second, would be with a 4.10 and an E36 gearbox. First gear is almost too short even with my lightly modded M20 and M20 gearbox with a 4.10 LSD.

Where are you using first gear at though?

A 4.10 with the 1:1 tranny would be tons of fun on a course without any real long straights.

-Charlie

[rwh11385]

Charlie, haha. Not my fault all the classroom instruction mysteriously echoes most of your and others advice. :P

Skafrog's input about what is a fun short gearing: Hmmmm.......that fucker is crazy.


After I got the chip back in, I avoided shifting alltogether minus up on the main straight obviously and then down after 1. With the high redline I can carry a lot of speed in 3rd, while with the 4.10 still using the torque to power out of 7 without going into 2nd.

I just stayed in 3rd 90% of the course, and it avoids having to shift quick into fourth, then rush the downshift, braking, rev-matching, turn-in etc etc like on 5 after the straight following 4. Someday I'll have to learn..... but not now. It's smoothly riding the top of 3rd and working lines, not worrying about the orchestry of the clutch, brake, shifter, and throttle in a rush.