Who has driven an E30 and an E36?

[SteadyAim.]

I have both.....e30s are small and sporty, nimble; the e36 feels mildly larger, but also nimble in its own way....the e30 feels old, the e36 feels "modern" relatively speaking

Agreed.

[e30fish]

Early e36 do come with lsd's. My 93' 318i had one factory. A lot of 325is till 95 had them too.


What is your intended purpose for the car? If autoX is it, you can't beat the e36 m3 for performance per dollar although the other cars 325 w/2.8l swap is within a half second of a m3 in street prepared trim and nearly the same in street touring trim.

For driving around town as a second car I'd pick up an e30. They have way more character. The styling is uber-classic! The e36 for a main daily driver

[Ultimo_Posto]

I have all the theory of race driving but I've never put it into practice in the real world. What I want is a car that's not a pig to drive that I can use to hone my race technique and get consistent lap times. I need it to be cheap to maintain and strong enough to withstand the occasional hour of pounding around a track. I'm primarily interested in racing against myself on an empty track so I'm not thinking about competition at the moment. I don't need it for daily driving as it will not be my primary vehicle, but initially I want it as a backup in case my primary vehicle has problems, so I'm currently looking for a street legal car that I might later turn it into a track-only car. My local circuit is Willow Springs and I hear they have an excellent street layout.

[rob-redm]

E30 over a E36.... like the lines and the way the E30 drive over the E36 models I have driving..

[fiveightandten]

I'm curious about the guys saying that the E36 isn't forgiving. It has a longer wheelbase than the E30 and better rear suspension geometry. E30 is pretty nimble and has a great raw feel. But hop in an E36 M3 after driving an E30, and the E36 feels like a god damned monster. It's extremely confidence inspiring and has pretty high limits.

You can poke and prod the car and give it flat out stupid inputs. It will not bite back in stock form. They're set up to understeer, and even when you dial some front camber in to balance it out, they transition into oversteer very progressively and never do anything unpredictable. If anything, i'd say it's *too* forgiving in stock form. Everyone puts camber up front and slaps sways on, in order to get the car to rotate easier. I'm running over -3.0º of camber up front at autoX (-1.8º rear), and the car is VERY forgiving and VERY easy to drive at 10/10ths.

That being said, you can do better for autoX than an E36 M3. This is a car with a slow steering rack and a long wheelbase for its size. If you want to stick with BMW's, i'd say it's the car to get. But if you venture outside Munich, you'll find that many other cars are better for autoX. The E36's strong point is higher speed cornering, not driving around in parking lots in 2nd gear (i'm not slamming autoX...I autoX my E36 M3 frequently).

As a performance machine that has relatively modern levels of refinement and creature comforts, the E36 is the better car (though, as others have said, the M3 is the one to get). But we're talking old German sports cars. There's not a lot of logic involved in the purchase, so IMO the correct answer is to go with whatever car you feel more of a draw to. AutoX is about fun, and the E30 has that in spades, clearly. You can go fast in an E30 for sure. So even though my recommendation would be E36 M3...I think this is splitting hairs, in a sense.

[fiveightandten]

Oh, BTW, you can very easily swap over an E36 M3 LSD to any E36 except a 318ti. At most, you're looking at swapping the flanges to match your driveshaft/axles.

The M3 suspension setup is a bit different, but that stuff is easily swapped over as well. Though, considering how watered down the E36 M3 is, I wouldn't really consider a base 3 series in E36 form. They're rather underwhelming. M3's are so cheap these days, IMO there's no point to getting an E36 without WBS in the VIN.

[SSE30]

Oh, BTW, you can very easily swap over an E36 M3 LSD to any E36 except a 318ti. At most, you're looking at swapping the flanges to match your driveshaft/axles.

The M3 suspension setup is a bit different, but that stuff is easily swapped over as well. Though, considering how watered down the E36 M3 is, I wouldn't really consider a base 3 series in E36 form. They're rather underwhelming. M3's are so cheap these days, IMO there's no point to getting an E36 without WBS in the VIN.

Not related to this thread, but I used to watch your BMW videos on YouTube prior to buying my E30. I loved your attention to detail and how you described things.

[kalib0y]

I bounce back and forth but I usually lean toward the e36. I love the look and feel.

[MikeDE]

I had an E36 M3 when I lived in NY, I didn't get my 1st E30 till I lived in Germany. For me the E36 fit, but I love seeing well- maintained/modded/fresh E30's over e36's anyday.

I vote for E36, i've been looking for a 328 Touring mysef for the last few weeks. As was already said, the feel of the E36 is what gets me: the cabin/seats/layout.

[Wild Ride]

I used to work at BMW and have driven every version of the 3 series many times. I am very sensitive and critical to how cars drive.

My personal autox car is a stroker e30 325is with just shy of 200whp coil overs and a z3 quick ratio steering rack.

I co drove a mildly modified e36 m3 at autox and I agree with fiveeightandten in saying the car is very forgiving and easy to drive on and past the limit. That being said it just fees so heavy and rubbery in comparison to a nicely set up e30.

Stock for stock and dollar for dollar an e36 is better set up from the factory but the e30 has more potential to be massively fun. Its like a blunt object compared to a scapel. Most friends I see buying e36's sell them to get back to an e30's they just miss them dearly and always regret selling the e30. The e30 has an undeniable magnetism that is just unbeatable. I have never driven an e36, e46 e82 e90 or f30 that made me want anything other than an e30.

Your best bet is finding a nicely prepped e30 that is set up for track/autox. You will save alot of money and time buying a nicely sorted example.

[fiveightandten]

Not related to this thread, but I used to watch your BMW videos on YouTube prior to buying my E30. I loved your attention to detail and how you described things.

Glad they could help out. A while back, I recorded some newer versions with better lighting and updated info. But YouTube was giving me grief about the file sizes and they weren't uploading. Oh well. Anyways, thanks for the kind words!

[Don Stevens]

Looking for a great E30 to learn to race? Buy this;

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=304811

No affiliation. You cannot build an E30 race car for the $7500 this seller is asking. You will be plenty challenged learning to drive this car and have more fun than you can imagine. The way it is configured you can drive it to the track, learn to drive fast, and with only minor additional work can go racing.

I own a Spec E30. E36 (Supercharged 318ps with M3 suspension) and an E30 vert DD.
The e36 is a much more refined chassis, easier to drive fast, but the E30 is more fun IMHO.

Good Luck

[jimsill]

Check out my sig. The e30 is a drivers car. While I like the power band in both cars, the e36 always felt "soft" in comparison after a spirited drive in the e30. Likewise when i hopped back into the e30 after a few days of favoring the e36, it felt snappy and raw. If you looking for a track car I'd say the e30 possesses more race car mannerisms. I currently have a 2002 and a different e30 than my sig. The e30 feels like a Lincoln Continental after an hour in the 02'. That is a race car...


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[ForcedFirebird]

I have tracked both and they are different in many ways, and both very fun cars. If you are wanting to learn to drive, start with the e30 as it's a momentum car and you will learn more technique.

[VVT4ME]

I've owned both a 97 M3 and now a '90 325i. I sold my M3 for four times what I bought my E30 for. With that being said, its amazing the amount of enjoyment I get driving both cars...its very close. Very different experiences, but almost as much enjoyment. My 4 door E30 feels a lot smaller and more tossable then my M3 did. The engine sounds are simiar, as I has an AA exhaust on the M3 and I have some ghetto one on my E30....both bring a grin to my face. Considering possible price entry points, Id almost recommend an E30 over an E36 M3....almost. The viceral experience for me has been very similar. But.....it still is an apples/oranges comparison. I do miss my M.