Making a track toy - E30 M3

[LINUS]

one of the stupidest things Ive read on r3v.

You're from TX, so I'll let you live your lie. The rest of the world know that at some point the cost to get available crude will force gas prices up. It's there, but it will be a large increase in price from where we are now. I have worked in the oil industry most of my life, and I am sure that the cost of gas will be driven to a level your ignorance can't comprehend. At that point we will start looking for alternatives, since we all know anything is driven by the buck.

I know you don't get it, but your ignorance is unbelievable. See what a gallon of super goes for in Europe right now. Out of curiosity, how far did your education get you? Are you asking if people want to supersize their fries?

I guarantee super will be better than double current price in 15 years. Call me on that, I dare you. It doubled in the last 15 years, and that was a slow inflation compared to the previous 15 year period. Think before you type.

[325Projectz]

Bimmer, sick car. Mod it how you want, which you already are. And your e39 m5 is titties!

someday? ;)



Mariano

Yeah, someday is right.

People act like e30 m3's are god & gold. Guess what!? They're not. You can pick up an original e30 m3 in great shape these days with low miles for $20k. Sorry, but in this world, $20k isn't shit. They sold for a hell of a lot more new then they are worth right now, they sold for around $36k, fifteen years ago! Thats a shit ton more money back in the day then it is now. Yeah, they are going back up in value. But still far from the cost of new.

Also, people are ranting and raving about keeping the car stock, blah blah blah. Half (probably more, my survey isn't 100% accurate) of the so called 'purists' are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. Hypocrites that do mods/damage much worse then changing out the engine. I can think of plenty of other things worse than an engine swap. Oh here’s a good one, tracking e30 m3s! Have at it! More power to you! Have fun, it's your car. But when you wrap that thing around a tree or plow into another car, you really can't just return it to stock form. When you drop a s50 variant into the car you can return it to stock, so no the car didn't bite the dust. But people cheer tracking e30 m3's everyday. So do I, I don't hate for you taking the chance of totaling your car. Also, for those who track e30s real hard, I'm sure you know but you can tell by looking at the roof of the car. They get wavy, and I'll bet that’s more work to fix than swapping out a motor. Not to mention the chassis probably has permanent damage.

FYI to all of you (you know who you are), an S14 is just an engine! Yeah, just an engine! They can be changed. All the 'another one bites the dust' type comments shouldn't be posted. That’s BS and you guys know it. Wheels, exhaust, s14 builds, body parts, seats, stereos, etc... can all be changed out.

Take a guess how many bolts hold the engine in the car? Yeah, not many. Right? It's a day worth of work to return these car back to stock, for those of you who actually know how to spin a wrench.

Also, about the whole S14 is the heritage of the car BS, and keep the car stock comments... You guys run out and change everything and rebuild the motor to a different spec then stock, Yeah sure, it's a rebuild to 2.5l, but correct me if I'm wrong but that motor came in a Evo model... Why don't you (purists) go buy an Evo. Oh wait, you probably don't have the money to do that (generally speaking) so instead you rape a stock e30 m3. You should just put the motor in a regular ol' e30 Remember, the cars that are going to be worth real money are the cars that are 100% stock. 2.5l builds will still be worth money, so will DOHC swapped cars, but neither will be worth as much as a good stock car that wasn't ever tracked with all service records.

Come on, grow up. Other e30 m3s didn't go up in value because me, bimmer, vlad and all the others changed our motors. They go up in value as more of these cars enter junk yards.

Bimmer, sorry your thread had to turn out this way, but because of the immature people around here all e30 m3 s50 threads get shit on.

[madjurgen]

You're from TX, so I'll let you live your lie. The rest of the world know that at some point the cost to get available crude will force gas prices up. It's there, but it will be a large increase in price from where we are now. I have worked in the oil industry most of my life, and I am sure that the cost of gas will be driven to a level your ignorance can't comprehend. At that point we will start looking for alternatives, since we all know anything is driven by the buck.

I know you don't get it, but your ignorance is unbelievable. See what a gallon of super goes for in Europe right now. Out of curiosity, how far did your education get you? Are you asking if people want to supersize their fries?

I guarantee super will be better than double current price in 15 years. Call me on that, I dare you. It doubled in the last 15 years, and that was a slow inflation compared to the previous 15 year period. Think before you type.

What does my education have anything to do with this? And btw, I gots plenty. Youre the one that came in here spouting irrelevant crap about gasoline engines becoming obsolete in a discussion about S14 vs 24v motors. What does that have ANYTHING to do with the discussion? I never said that gas prices wont go up, obviously they will and already have considerably. But the price jump cant be solely contributed to depleting supply. Youre ignorant if you dont factor in politics and the middle east situation, which has been a large contributor to the price increase in the past 5 years. I have to agree that the gas prices probably will be double in 15 years. But to say that gasoline engines are in danger of becoming obsolete soon is ridiculous and downright stupid.

[UNHCLL]

M10 engine with S38 head wipped up in a couple of weeks
E28 mixed with E30 struts in front
E30 susp in the back
E30 interior

Do you have a reason for why they went with a 4cyl?
Do you think it´s because of the magical weight balance?
The S14 is not light and a M3 is equal in weight to a E30 325i or there abouts

Nope, M10 & S14 blocks are different.
Its not a S38 head with cyl's cut off. Nice internet rumor that was perpetuated my mis-information.
Rear suspension... are you sure its not from a 2002? By your logic they are all the same...
So what about e36 M3's, or e39 M5's, or e34 m5's.... they all share interiors must be a parts bin car too...

Gunni,
I also find it humerous that you make all these statements about how "plain jane" the M3 is... coming from someone who was ecstatic about buying a "rare" M3... Cocetto/Ravaglia. Why buy a "rare" version of the car and spend a premium when you could have bought a normal M3 chassis to swap engines? Is it just the body design you like then? Or are the suspension and brakes worthless too?? I mean what is the point of buying the car as a basis if its so "bargain bin" assembled...???



"Time bomb motor" - another fucking internet myth perpetuated by bullshit cheap ass people who don't maintain the car. I can't even tell you how many engines we build that are raced season after season with no issue. Class winning engines too. Then I could cite examples of some "big name, big dollar" builders who's engines grenade within 2 races...(I have multiple examples). Its bullshit that people on forums read and believe who have zero experience.

Want to talk about parts bin special... look at the M/S5x motor family. The only engine even remotely close to being "special" is the European S50... all the american versions are bullshit engines. (Not to say they are bad on HP... but they are nothing special at all)

Also, people are ranting and raving about keeping the car stock, blah blah blah. Half (probably more, my survey isn't 100% accurate) of the so called 'purists' are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. Hypocrites that do mods/damage much worse then changing out the engine. I can think of plenty of other things worse than an engine swap. Oh here’s a good one, tracking e30 m3s! Have at it! More power to you! Have fun, it's your car. But when you wrap that thing around a tree or plow into another car, you really can't just return it to stock form. When you drop a DOHC variant into the car you can return it to stock, so no the car didn't bite the dust. But people cheer tracking e30 m3's everyday. So do I, I don't hate for you taking the chance of totaling your car. Also, for those who track e30s real hard, I'm sure you know but you can tell by looking at the roof of the car. They get wavy, and I'll bet that’s more work to fix than swapping out a motor. Not to mention the chassis probably has permanent damage.

So, by this reason those who swap in S50 motors will never hit another car, or hit a tree, or maybe crash while drag racing with their awesome new powerhouse engines?

all e30 m3 DOHC threads get shit on.

All M3's are DOHC to begin with. ;)

Just poking fun....


To each their own.
I like to keep my car in the spirit of its original design. I'm not going to look down on anyone for swapping in another engine. Would I do it myself? Nope... its not my desire/style. I won't be critical of it unless its purely a half assed attempt that ruins a good chassis.

I don't really care about the "value" of my car on paper. I don't plan on selling it... the more it goes up on paper, the more I end up paying in insurance premiums...
If I was worried about originality, we would have kept the sub 30k mile M3 we owned...

I enjoy my car.
Bimmer will thoroughly enjoy his.
We're all happy.

-Respectfully
Chris

[Jean]

Wow, what's with all the fighting .. but I had to comment on the following below. Isn't that what e30 m3 is best for, it's a drivers car that feels at home on the track and all you do is cruise in it to your local starbucks like many others in their latest and greatests g35s, mb sl's and so on and on then what makes us different from any other regular joe or a poser ?

Lol, just my 2 cents.



Oh here’s a good one, tracking e30 m3s! Have at it! More power to you! Have fun, it's your car. But when you wrap that thing around a tree or plow into another car, you really can't just return it to stock form. When you drop a DOHC variant into the car you can return it to stock, so no the car didn't bite the dust. But people cheer tracking e30 m3's everyday. So do I, I don't hate for you taking the chance of totaling your car. Also, for those who track e30s real hard, I'm sure you know but you can tell by looking at the roof of the car. They get wavy, and I'll bet that’s more work to fix than swapping out a motor. Not to mention the chassis probably has permanent damage.

If there is proof to this, please share it. Is the chassis that "soft" that the roof gets wavy ?

[325Projectz]

So, by this reason those who swap in S50 motors will never hit another car, or hit a tree, or maybe crash while drag racing with their awesome new powerhouse engines?

No, I didn't mean it that way. But tracking your car, regardless of engine, is taking a much bigger chance of ruining an e30 m3. Whereas the swap doesn't ruin the car because it's a reversible process.

All M3's are DOHC to begin with. ;)

Just poking fun....

Lol, I missed that one! *Clicks on edit*

-Respectfully
Chris

I'm glad it can be that way.

[325Projectz]

If there is proof to this, please share it. Is the chassis that "soft" that the roof gets wavy ?

It's called stress. Look on the sides of the sunroof on heavily tracked e30's, without the reinforcement of cages. I'm not saying it happens to all cars, but it does. If the car has a cage, then it is a moot point on what engine it has in it, because it'll probably never see stock form again.

Simply stated, I'd rather buy an e30 m3 with a s50 than one with a s14 that has been tracked through out it's life.

Here is more reading on swapped e30 m3s: http://www.s14.net/emergencyforums/viewtopic.php?t=238

[BimmerToad]

Bimmer: Good luck with the project, you should have a fun beast on your hands when you're through. It looks like you know how to have fun with your cars and not get sucked into the role of being a museum curator for your 'priceless E30 M3'

People act like e30 m3's are god & gold. Guess what!? They're not. You can pick up an original e30 m3 in great shape these days with low miles for $20k. Sorry, but in this world, $20k isn't shit. They sold for a hell of a lot more new then they are worth right now, they sold for around $36k, fifteen years ago! Thats a shit ton more money back in the day then it is now. Yeah, they are going back up in value. But still far from the cost of new.

THANK YOU! Apparently $20k on R3v is the equivalent of a gold mine, and instead of setting up an IRA for retirement, sounds like I should start buying up E30 M3s.

They made over ten thousands of E30 M3s, and for a ultra rare collectors car, they don't seem to hold there value as their rarity suggests (or people on the forums suggest). If you feel the sentimental value of the M3 is greater than the price, then by all means buy one ... but don't talk trash about what another person is doing to theirs.

Now if the car were a '73 Carrera 2.7 RS, a Ferrari 250 GTO, Lotus Elan 26R, a E30 M3 factory car, etc., then I'd have a problem. But while I can bitch and moan, I can't do anything about it. You can't declare a citizens arrest on some poor sap that decides to paint his Vintage Ferrari Mystique purple and put an underlight kit on it.

Keep us updated on the progress :D

[UNHCLL]

Bimmer: Good luck with the project, you should have a fun beast on your hands when you're through. It looks like you know how to have fun with your cars and not get sucked into the role of being a museum curator for your 'priceless E30 M3'



THANK YOU! Apparently $20k on R3v is the equivalent of a gold mine, and instead of setting up an IRA for retirement, sounds like I should start buying up E30 M3s.

They made over ten thousands of E30 M3s, and for a ultra rare collectors car, they don't seem to hold there value as their rarity suggests (or people on the forums suggest). If you feel the sentimental value of the M3 is greater than the price, then by all means buy one ... but don't talk trash about what another person is doing to theirs.

Now if the car were a '73 Carrera 2.7 RS, a Ferrari 250 GTO, Lotus Elan 26R, a E30 M3 factory car, etc., then I'd have a problem. But while I can bitch and moan, I can't do anything about it. You can't declare a citizens arrest on some poor sap that decides to paint his Vintage Ferrari Mystique purple and put an underlight kit on it.

Keep us updated on the progress :D

What do you know... you're an "adult" who consorts with the known forum "terrorist".... :pimp: ;)

[BimmerToad]

What do you know... you're an "adult" who consorts with the known forum "terrorist".... :pimp: ;)

lmao

the words "adult" and "terrorist" are both relative :D

[LINUS]

What does my education have anything to do with this? And btw, I gots plenty. Youre the one that came in here spouting irrelevant crap about gasoline engines becoming obsolete in a discussion about S14 vs 24v motors. What does that have ANYTHING to do with the discussion? I never said that gas prices wont go up, obviously they will and already have considerably. But the price jump cant be solely contributed to depleting supply. Youre ignorant if you dont factor in politics and the middle east situation, which has been a large contributor to the price increase in the past 5 years. I have to agree that the gas prices probably will be double in 15 years. But to say that gasoline engines are in danger of becoming obsolete soon is ridiculous and downright stupid.

My 'irrelevant crap' was a larger picture view of what cars in general would be worth waaay down the road. I get the concept that it's a 24v swap discussion, and it gets old, and I was in general wondering on a larger scale. The S14 debate is so lame, it's time to just call a truce on that topic and agree to disagree. If the S14 purists choose to look down their nose at a 24v swap, let them - but it's been clearly stated what they think, so maybe it's time to just keep it to themselves unless directly asked for an opinion.

Gee, we're in Iraq for more than purely humanitarian reasons? WOW! That clears things up for me ENTIRELY! Do you seriously think you told me something I wasn't clear on? I figure you must, and it explains you calling me a moron. I may not be the sharpest pencil in the box, but I seriously call into question your credentials to call me on it.

I'm not saying it will be tomorrow, next year, or even within the next 30 years, but I bet towards the tail end of my lifetime we'll see a point where, if we are still on the fossil it will be strictly used for vehicles. Maybe not even private commercial. A few municipalities have already switched to biodiesel, and it's gaining momentum. So the only way I see a stable petroleum price is to preemptively reduce our rate of consumption, and thereby reducing demand. I have seen a couple articles so far where BP is buying farmable land globally, with an eye towards growing & producing seed oil.

Look, Jurgen - I may seem crazy to a Texan (I've toured 2 refineries in your state), and I can't believe the EPA lets what goes on in your state fly. For example you have a particular unit in a refinery called a 'sulphur recovery unit' - in WA we are allowed a 24 rolling average of 250ppm SO2 (sulfur dioxide) emissions. Exceeding that can but usually doesn't result in a fine. Generally exceedances occur due to a unit trip/failure. We might have 2-3 trips annually, where in TX they just flare it and do what they can to get back in compliance. There really is no serious penalty, generally they don't even dilute the SO2sulfur with steam. The mentality of management in refineries is a total throwback down there. It just amazed me.

I realize what I say might seem odd, but where you are located is the last place environmental change will occur. Just stating fact. And in reality, WA isn't even the leader in clean refining. There are a few refineries in CA (one even IN Los Angeles city limits) - and because of the EPA it's almost unprofitable to even operate in CA.

So you can think what you like, but as much as I read, see, and talk about with people who are involved in emerging alternatives, the future might be closer than you think. Not saying we're going to all run out and melt down all our cars, just saying that the day might come where a 22/25 mpg car would be financially unreasonable to use as a DD and be just a rich man's toy or a garage queen.

[AC Nico]

nice m3... is saw them also on www.mobile.de ... the seller has more of them :D

and also your e39 m5 is very nice... i like. next days i will post some pics of my new car ;)

[bimmer]

nice m3... is saw them also on www.mobile.de ... the seller has more of them :D

and also your e39 m5 is very nice... i like. next days i will post some pics of my new car ;)

Mobile.de is where I found it :) Do not think about buying the
other white car the guy has to sell, the one to the left from mine on
the pic (and the one on the right was sold):



It´s badly rusted.

My E39 M5 is a joy - here you can see my CarDomain page for the car,
it includes some of the modding history (I need to add the SC madness)
and some soundclips fromt he Supersprint + TUBI exhaust:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2417213/1

[CleanAzzE30z]

I can´t see how a 400hp S50 E30 M3 is worse then a 195hp S14 M3.

So were comparing a stock U.S. S14, to a heavily modified European ///M3 engine. ok....


Ill just agree to disagree. Good luck on your project, and I see your points to going with a much more reliable, more powerful engine. I just happen not to be of the same train of thought. Different strokes. ;)

Mariano

[bimmer]

This thread has really covered alot of issues - way beyond what I had expected :crazy:

Anyways - the project is moving forward, I´ll have the car shipped next
week to Germany so the madness can begin.