First OFFICIAL TWINCHARGED M20 BUILD

[SkiFree]

.. what brand of custom HEI wires would you go with? MSD?ACCEL?etc..

Denny, see post #161, you might find it helpful.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=211891&page=11

[Denny]

So, you can wire it up to a pin on the DB15 connector that came with the kit, and jumper TACH OUT on the board to that pin for the DB15 connector and it should be able to drive it.

ok cool I will do that . thank you for the help on this

[Denny]

Denny, see post #161, you might find it helpful.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...211891&page=11

Well first of all I want to say that you my friend have a kickass thread lol... amazing work! I'm too damn busy with my 2 projects and life.family to go and read a lot of the threads unfortunately as I'm discovering that we got some seriously smart guys in R3V. thanks for the link

I already ordered new sparkplug wires and a crimper... I went with this

Mallory, part #774
and MSD part # 3503

I should have them on friday and finish my setup on saturday and pray it will not rain on Sunday so I can go to the drag strip for some runs and tuning.

[ash1989e30]

Re: Twincharging
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash1989e30
Hi
I live in the uk, and have followed your twincharged build avidly and am in awe of your skills and resourcefulness! It looks awesome, and when I stumbled across it, I decided that was the direction i wanted to go with my currently turbo'd 325, which has nitrous oxide acting as anti-lag. It is running megasquirt, using a MAP sensor, wasted spark, rrfpr, and i have an electronic boost controller. I bought a eaton m62 which had been on a M50 previously, and has the electromagnetic clutch pulley.

As you have already done this, i wanted to ask you several things about your build. One of the main things i cannot find a satisfactory answer about is the effect of running air through the supercharger, and the subsequent losses involved once the turbo is producing boost. My intention is to plumb it as follows;

Intake-Turbo-FMIC-Throttle Body-S/C-Top Mount Intercooler (or chargecooler)-Inlet

I was planning on deactivating the M62 via the electromagnetic clutch pulley with either a RPM window switch, or a boost pressure switch, so that once the turbo is boosting (at around 3,100rpm iirc), the supercharger becomes free-spinning and the air from the turbo can just flow through it, but would this cause a serious restriction in a roots-type S/C, and if so, how did you overcome this obstacle, as i cannot find any reasonable solution, other than fabricating some sort of diverter flap, and having another intake pipe, which would be unreliable and complicated.

With this in mind, what bypass valve did you use, and is a suitable bypass valve simply a recirculating dump valve, which returns the air to the intake pipe, or can a atmospheric BOV be used, and do i need just the one, mounted before the throttlebody, or another somewhere in the system?

I will be mounting my charger above the alternator and PS pump, on the intake side, similar to you have done, because of the turbo on the other side, and wondered how you ensured the pulley lined up perfectly with the pulley at the crank?

I was planning on obtaining a m50 A/C pulley to begin with and replacing the current PS crank pulley with the M50 one, to line everything up and get an idea of how it will all work, before the expense of getting a pulley machined, but i am worried it may produce too much boost?

I think i may be looking at doing this as a 'compound' charged system, because i am planning on having just one intake route, flowing through the supercharger at all times, including when it is disengaged, and not diverting the air around it?

Is that the same system as what you have done or not, as i am not sure, looking at the pics from your build, because you are boosting from the supercharger all through the rev range, but i was thinking of disengaging it when at 3,100rpm, so at any one time, only either the turbo or the s/c can produce boost, and not at the same time..is this a good idea or not?

Any help would be really really appreciated, as there is not much information on supercharging the m20, let alone twin/compound charging it, as i'm sure you know!
Sorry i have written so much, it didn't seem as long- winded in my head!

Thank you
Ashton

Hi Ashton,

thank you and great questions. Wish you would of posted these in my thread it would help others too not the first time I get these questions. I did a lot of research on what type of twincharging I wanted to to go and the best and less complicated way was to size the SC and turbo to be close enough that they would live together well without any kind of bypass valve (expect the normal BOV for turbo of course) The SC those an amazing job at multiplying the boost from the turbo without a hickup... my problem was mostly how to restrict the boost with the BLV without it I would be boosting over 23PSI++ my 6" custom crank pulley and a 2.6" SC pulley give approx 10PSI on the m20b25 engine using the m62 SC the turbo kicks in fast as well because of the extra 1 liter of exhaust the SC helps the engine make so my GT35 turbo makes boost so transparent that you think its the SC making it which is really cool because the SC torque is there all the way of the RPM. my setup goes:

Air filter-->turbo--(bov)->SC--->I/C--(blv)->intake

I'm planning also to add water/meth injection at the intake to cool off even more as I go to 20PSI of boost.

Nothing like it ...once you drive one your hooked and wont go back..just a warning my inspiration is from the rally group B lancia delta S4 (same setup)

dont be shy to go in my thread...

Denny

[ash1989e30]

Hi Denny, thank you for your reply. I have posted my original question and your reply in your thread for others to see. I am now under way on my e30, have removed the power steering pump and will be mounting the supercharger this week, but I am still slightly confused regarding the S\C bypass.

All the research I have done has pointed to the requirement for some kind of bypass for when the throttle shuts, so the air has somewhere to go, but you have a boost limiter valve on yours..does this act as a bypass/recirculating diverter valve (similar to audi/vw golf type forge 007p) when the throttle shuts?

The thing I cant get my head around is that the throttle is relocated between the turbo and the supercharger, but the MAP sensor is reading from the inlet manifold, and so when the throttle shuts, there is still a substantial amount of air between the supercharger and the inlet-so surely this needs to have a bypass relief somewhere after the supercharger..or am I totally confusing myself? Also, i have moved my alternator down to where the power steering pump was, and wondered if you had any pics showing how you mounted yours?

Sorry for the questions etc-you just seem knowledgeable and willing to answer questions from people like me who badger you!

Ashton

[ash1989e30]

whoops..just had a re-read of this thread, and I have a feeling my main question has already been answered-I am not trying to poke holes in what you have done, because obviously it works well-i just want to get everything straight in my mind before I do it :)

[Denny]

whoops..just had a re-read of this thread, and I have a feeling my main question has already been answered-I am not trying to poke holes in what you have done, because obviously it works well-i just want to get everything straight in my mind before I do it :)

Cool to see you here Ashton. I got no problems at all with new ideas or comments.. I know my setup works really well.. but it doesnt mean it can be made better :)

To answer your question a little more my throttle body is before the charger (being a roots type SC it will only use/compress the amount of air that goes trew the throttle body. My bov is from the turbo to the throttle body like a normal turbo only setup. The other valve I have (BLV) is a boost limiting valve... since in my setup air gets compressed twice it makes a lot more boost(23PSI++) so I got that valve after the SC and intake manifold to bleed boost and not let it overboost. Right now I got it set at 17PSI but it was cuting out spark because of the OEM one coil setup was...welll not up to the task so I just finished upgrading to Wasted spark and wow what a difference now I can boost a lot more so I will be cranking the (BLV) to allow more boost. So right now its tuning time..did a bit today ..car runs very very smooth, power is a instant as before but the ignition is very happy at 17PSI now :)

[TheTacoMan]

I wants more vids :D

[Mr. Tasty]

serious man/machine love in this thread

[Denny]

I wants more vids :D

My little brother is coming to visit me on saturday we havent seen each other in like 10 years or so...he's built a turbo civic with a gsr engine!! I told him ......
...



LOL.. oh and hold this camera please I need some real vids :)

serious man/machine love in this thread

:D:D:D:D damn right!!

[ash1989e30]

Cool to see you here Ashton. I got no problems at all with new ideas or comments.. I know my setup works really well.. but it doesnt mean it can be made better :)

To answer your question a little more my throttle body is before the charger (being a roots type SC it will only use/compress the amount of air that goes trew the throttle body. My bov is from the turbo to the throttle body like a normal turbo only setup. The other valve I have (BLV) is a boost limiting valve... since in my setup air gets compressed twice it makes a lot more boost(23PSI++) so I got that valve after the SC and intake manifold to bleed boost and not let it overboost. Right now I got it set at 17PSI but it was cuting out spark because of the OEM one coil setup was...welll not up to the task so I just finished upgrading to Wasted spark and wow what a difference now I can boost a lot more so I will be cranking the (BLV) to allow more boost. So right now its tuning time..did a bit today ..car runs very very smooth, power is a instant as before but the ignition is very happy at 17PSI now :)

Ahh looks like i will need to get myself a BLV then, although i will also be turning the supercharger off via the electronic boost controller..better safe than sorry i guess! mmm @17psi! lol-im very envious of your car atm! hehe the 'charger is pretty much mounted in my car now, but because it is a short nose M62, the viscous fan gets in the way..my car has a larger radiator than standard and a 'push type' electric fan on it already, so do you think i could either cut down the viscous fan blades or remove it completely, which is what i think you have done from your pictures? The other question i have is regarding the plumbing from turbo to s/c..do you get significant heat from the turbo outlet to the supercharger without having a second intercooler between the two, or does this not matter, because the twinpass intercooler is effective enough at cooling the whole charge? i was considering running a small intercooler between the turbo and supercharger and then the second twinpass intercooler between supercharger outlet and to the engine, but of course there is limited space to be trying to fit two intercoolers in there! good luck with your tuning and you need more vids, because the one you posted up before has been removed and i havent seen it yet! :curse:

[Denny]

Ahh looks like i will need to get myself a BLV then, although i will also be turning the supercharger off via the electronic boost controller..better safe than sorry i guess! mmm @17psi! lol-im very envious of your car atm! hehe the 'charger is pretty much mounted in my car now, but because it is a short nose M62, the viscous fan gets in the way..my car has a larger radiator than standard and a 'push type' electric fan on it already, so do you think i could either cut down the viscous fan blades or remove it completely, which is what i think you have done from your pictures? The other question i have is regarding the plumbing from turbo to s/c..do you get significant heat from the turbo outlet to the supercharger without having a second intercooler between the two, or does this not matter, because the twinpass intercooler is effective enough at cooling the whole charge? i was considering running a small intercooler between the turbo and supercharger and then the second twinpass intercooler between supercharger outlet and to the engine, but of course there is limited space to be trying to fit two intercoolers in there! good luck with your tuning and you need more vids, because the one you posted up before has been removed and i havent seen it yet! :curse:

for the BLV is a good way to restrict boost when running a roots type SC like ours and is a good security backup in case the turbo wastegate goes haywire and you boost more...
I removed my clutch fan and went with an electric one in front of the rad to make room it cools very nice my temps stay in the 205farenheit approx. I didnt put a intercooler for the turbo as I didnt have the room for one but the piping is long and under the car so it does not see much heat from me touching the pipes after a good run...the pipe coming off the SC is very very hot but the cooler does a good job but I want to go further and use water/meth injection too it cant hurt to cool down even more plus the extra octane is welcome at 20 PSI :) Yeap I need more videos ...just hard with my family life and all.. my brother came over but we all got drunk last night and he didnt bring his turbo civic but he was very impressed by my car he may jump ship to the e30 scene lol..

[ash1989e30]

for the BLV is a good way to restrict boost when running a roots type SC like ours and is a good security backup in case the turbo wastegate goes haywire and you boost more...
I removed my clutch fan and went with an electric one in front of the rad to make room it cools very nice my temps stay in the 205farenheit approx. I didnt put a intercooler for the turbo as I didnt have the room for one but the piping is long and under the car so it does not see much heat from me touching the pipes after a good run...the pipe coming off the SC is very very hot but the cooler does a good job but I want to go further and use water/meth injection too it cant hurt to cool down even more plus the extra octane is welcome at 20 PSI :) Yeap I need more videos ...just hard with my family life and all.. my brother came over but we all got drunk last night and he didnt bring his turbo civic but he was very impressed by my car he may jump ship to the e30 scene lol..

Thats a good point-i don't want to be running uncontrolled boost levels should my EBC fail, which it may do, as i don't have much faith in electronics controlling physical stuff like wastegates! Hmm..i will remove my fan then, which is what i wanted to do, otherwise space is very limited as you know! I may yet go with just a pipe if it isnt going to get too hot, and i looked at water/meth injection too-seems quite cheap for the potential gains to be had, but will be interesting to see how you get on :D
yeah videoing isn't easy-the only way i found was by using lots of cable ties and jamming the camera between the headrest and top of the seat..but just at the moment you don't want it to, it will slip just enough to give a wonky shot :p haha your brother should buy a nice half finished twin charge project e30 from england... ;) lol

[///Bimmerfan]

Why did you remove the video?...

[Denny]

Why did you remove the video?...

Let's just say a wise person told me to removed it... they are cracking down in my neighborhood as we speak. My next video's will be at the track...

trying to go here: http://www.riverside-speedway.ca/page/accueil.html and here: http://dragpontrouge.com/