Kadunza S54 ITB Adapter Plate Project

[digger]

cant see it providing a massive benefit with identical length since it will tune at the same as the OEM one unless the runner cross sectional area is different and the taper is different altering the overall volume of the runner

if it flows better there might be topend gains, or it might benefit from being able to use a bigger throttle body but cant say how much.

[King Mufasa]

looks like runners same size and length? the plenum looks better with actual pressure recovery instead of air dumping into the plenum from the centre. is there a nice radiused entry to the runners?

is it me or is the runner angle different?

They are same lenght and not at an angle.

yes I would imagine it would be better than the stock on its centre location

I think so, the entry is flared like trumpets, more images on the link.

[digger]

Digger your expert opinion on this plz


http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E36-325i...8f0eaa&vxp=mtr

looks like runners same size and length? the plenum looks better with actual pressure recovery instead of air dumping into the plenum from the centre. is there a nice radiused entry to the runners?

is it me or is the runner angle different?

[Aviator]

Subscribed!

[LJ851]

its good to see people doing NA builds, i'm not interested in turbos and overpowering the chassis. it is not always about making the highest numbers

Yes.

Looking forward to seeing the real world results of this project.

[kameleon]

Great idea making something bolt on using OEM parts, but as others have outlined i think for the majority of your customers they will have throttles that are just far too large for their setup.

Are there other smaller, readily available throttles that could be used instead? around 48mm would be on the money. Then again i am sure that defeats the purpose of what you wanted to achieve.

[King Mufasa]

Most guys with stockish M5X engines aren't the target audience i would think as they are probably not looking to spend this sort of coin; it’s the guys who are modded.
With throttle size it’s more of a hp/cylinder thing and it’s not a golden rule. Obviously the inlet runner ideally tapers down from airbox to the valve so depending how far from the valves the throttles are located all comes into it what size throttles will work best. The biggest effect of oversize runner diameter is in the midrange. It has to be a really really mismatched design (too large, too short, and poor flowing / laid out air box) to lose top end power.
A 3.2L S54 turning 7k+ will move a fair “volume” of air, an 3.2L S52 will move an identical “volume” but due to the additional restrictions the amount of mass flow is less in the S52 (lower density =lower VE) and this why it makes less hp without addressing those issues. Address those issues and reap the rewards

Digger your expert opinion on this plz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E36-325i-328i-323i-M3-Z3-E39-528i-Intake-Manifold-M50-M52-M54-/271447953066?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f338f0eaa&vxp=mtr

[digger]

Most guys with stockish M5X engines aren't the target audience i would think as they are probably not looking to spend this sort of coin; it’s the guys who are modded.
With throttle size it’s more of a hp/cylinder thing and it’s not a golden rule. Obviously the inlet runner ideally tapers down from airbox to the valve so depending how far from the valves the throttles are located all comes into it what size throttles will work best. The biggest effect of oversize runner diameter is in the midrange. It has to be a really really mismatched design (too large, too short, and poor flowing / laid out air box) to lose top end power.
A 3.2L S54 turning 7k+ will move a fair “volume” of air, an 3.2L S52 will move an identical “volume” but due to the additional restrictions the amount of mass flow is less in the S52 (lower density =lower VE) and this why it makes less hp without addressing those issues. Address those issues and reap the rewards

[wazzu70]

What shop is RE? Sorry Im out of the loop :)


VAC is now selling ATI dampers and Colby Colbs on BF.c is selling a larger diameter ATI damper for higher revs.

Sure the ITBs need supporting mods to get real gain....but thats a given. 50mm isn't really too big for a ~3L. Not like a S54 is unstreetable.

[CoreyZ]

Also while the S54 is a great engine, it is much more sensitive to oil starvation than the M5X group of engines, and things like rebuilding the dual VANOS are much more expensive.

This product could get you an ITB setup for significantly cheaper than anything else on the market, especially given Robert's price included a tune.

Are the throttles large? Yeah. The S54 revs to 8000rpm and has an insane head right from the factory - this is factored in to the ID of the throttles. You can have a throttle body that is too large, and slows flow entering the engine enough to reduce power.

You won't be getting these if you want more power on the low end. Stick with an OBD2 manifold for that.

For an NA build where top end is important, I think these can provide some gains.

Jenvey has an ITB kit they developed for the M52. Their throttles are 45mm ID. Given a cammed S52, 50mm doesn't sound too crazy.

[ja burna]

Can't wait for the final product. I am building my S52 right now, and I anticipate 315-325 to the tires. It would be interesting to see how much more I can squeeze out of it.

[RobertK]

its good to see people doing NA builds, i'm not interested in turbos and overpowering the chassis. it is not always about making the highest numbers

TY sir, a fan of your M20 build thread BTW. I will always have love for M20s.

[digger]

its good to see people doing NA builds, i'm not interested in turbos and overpowering the chassis. it is not always about making the highest numbers

[RobertK]

Engine dynamics bud...





This is designed for the m/s5x motors correct? Therefor, posting an m54 dyno-graph is irrelevant... If this is an m54 conversion, clarify that in your first post. Call me a "hater", or someone who knows enough to question what you are doing... I'll leave you alone.

I thought you said were done posting?

You're claiming "Engine Dynamics" as a reason it won't work when I've proven that an engine setup to use such an adapter makes obvious gains.

I've made no claims of HP or performance increases on ANY engine. This is simple a kit for someone building an engine that wants to take advantage of S54 ITBs. How they build their engine is completely their responsibility.

How bout this kid? Let me finish this project and let TRM tune it. I've always been honest and forthcoming about my products. I will post up my findings and if there is an issue I will continue to R&D until I happy with it.

Until that time comes why not continue to go around hating on other people's threads like you normally do and try to do better to contain your jealous nature. So far I don't see any of your posts as being anything but mainly negative and not a single product offered to the community. So put up or shut up.

So glad I learned to ignore r3v haters like you a long time ago otherwise I wouldn't be in business for myself.

[pantelones]

The "kit" is just a kit that allows you to bolt it onto your engine.

Engine dynamics bud...

it showing gains on a M54B30.

After that we will be designing a single intake plenum friendly to E36s as well as E30 24v swap cars.

This is designed for the m/s50/2 motors correct? Therefor, posting an m54 dyno-graph is irrelevant... If this is an m54 conversion, clarify that in your first post. Call me a "hater", or someone who knows enough to question what you are doing... I'll leave you alone.