E30 #2: 1990 Delphin: RHD ITB M20

[318aye]

^that's great! Get ready for some gains:up:

Haha hoping so, this will be a long process.

The Kamotors performance parts offer a sealed intake system!! not sure on how it would work with a carbon air box since the inlet is closer to the front. Maybe you can make a box like the euro e36 m3 stock design box..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Ver-5-BM...item1a0051549f

The "KA" in ka motors is actually running these ITB's as well at the moment. I'm sure he'd have some interesting thoughts if you suggested that to him.

i would try do something S54 CSL style with a panel filter though not as big, reason being to retain the long runners presumably you'll need to have access to the inside of the airbox to bolt it to the 50mm CNC adapters having the runners inside the box rather than like the S14 box where the runners are external.

one thing i would try to do differently is make allowance for strut brace. it would have to be a flat wide style though the sparco will never work without a funky design. and also look at using a panel filter

Kinda like this guy? I'm punting on a strut bar right now, as I want the airbox design dictated by best airflow rather than space constraints.

As for the CSL box, I like the two piece design but nutserts add cost (not sure how much at the moment). I'm having a hard time picturing the layout you're talking about (are you referring to the trumpet clamps as the 50mm adapters?), could you illustrate something? Hoping to have some basic ideas drawn up and the bay situation in CAD soon.

[digger]

i would try do something S54 CSL style with a panel filter though not as big, reason being to retain the long runners presumably you'll need to have access to the inside of the airbox to bolt it to the 50mm CNC adapters having the runners inside the box rather than like the S14 box where the runners are external.

one thing i would try to do differently is make allowance for strut brace. it would have to be a flat wide style though the sparco will never work without a funky design. and also look at using a panel filter

[King Mufasa]

The Kamotors performance parts offer a sealed intake system!! not sure on how it would work with a carbon air box since the inlet is closer to the front. Maybe you can make a box like the euro e36 m3 stock design box..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Ver-5-BMW-E30-Cold-Air-Intake-CAI-Carbon-Fiber-E36-E32-E34-318i-325i-M3-/111674479775?hash=item1a0051549f

[goarmy]

^that's great! Get ready for some gains:up:

[318aye]

where is the filter on the DTM box pictured?

They hide them inside the radiator panel duct on the street-oriented replica boxes. The one that came with my friend's box was almost a foot long iirc .

[digger]

http://web.archive.org/web/20070809060941/http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/engine-tech/airbox_symposium/index.htm

[digger]

where is the filter on the DTM box pictured?

[318aye]

I understand sorry for the confusion I was a bit too quick to reply and not make myself clear.

anyway, I was agreeing to the idea of a air box. and when I wrote (the same) I was referring to the previous idea of just having a filter in the runner compared to the box idea with a cone filter. I felt this is some what the same as it is still an open intake system. My suggestion was a sealed intake system because it has been shown in the past that it can provide cool air at approximately 1 minute sooner than a performance aftermarket open intakes systems like AFE. Original manufactured sealed idea is better IMO. Now as to "pressure" I explained in my previous post. sorry just trying to help

No worries! It sounded like you had something to contribute, but that it may have been lost in translation through the internet. Thanks for the tip!

The ultimate for me would be something ducted similar to the DTM rep boxes for the s14's. Goes straight to non bay air (mostly) and stays filtered.



I emailed rama about the box featured on his site:

"Hi Yes thats a prototype we were playing with it glues to the trumpets but was only semi successful the shape still wasnt quite right and it hit the bonnet and booster so we had to shorten the trumpets and modify underneath to make it fit so it never went into production. we still have plans to do it again but been too bust with other things at the moment"

Sounds like it may happen eventually, but nothing short term. I'll continue my r&d and see where it goes.

[goarmy]

I understand sorry for the confusion I was a bit too quick to reply and not make myself clear.

anyway, I was agreeing to the idea of a air box. and when I wrote (the same) I was referring to the previous idea of just having a filter in the runner compared to the box idea with a cone filter. I felt this is some what the same as it is still an open intake system. My suggestion was a sealed intake system because it has been shown in the past that it can provide cool air at approximately 1 minute sooner than a performance aftermarket open intakes systems like AFE. Original manufactured sealed idea is better IMO. Now as to "pressure" I explained in my previous post. sorry just trying to help

[318aye]

brian52555 View Post
"Care to elaborate more on your suggestion? Thanks for the kind words!

Not planning any show car bay stuff right now, but that motor is gorgeous."


Air density is a function of air pressure and air temperature. Air density cn typically be increased by a drop in elevation and in air temperature.

Hot air rises because it weighs less than cold air. There are fewer air molecules in a given volume of hot air, there are less air molecules to burn with the fuel. this causes unburnt fuel to exit the combustion chamber, resulting in LESS POWER being produced. For every5.5% rise in air intake temperature, engine power will; reduce by 1 percent!

A sealed system like the original manufactures have them is proven to be better than an open system.

This video shows how to and why "airbox".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSCt...ABr2vNIljFxQ-w

I think most people here understand the ideal gas equation, the pressure/temp relationship there and what it represents for internal combustion engines. The confusing portion was "Good call on the air box but it is still the same". I was asking what the airbox would be "the same as". Your comment about "You must try and have some pressure in the system" was also confusing in this context.

[goarmy]

brian52555 View Post
"Care to elaborate more on your suggestion? Thanks for the kind words!

Not planning any show car bay stuff right now, but that motor is gorgeous."


Air density is a function of air pressure and air temperature. Air density cn typically be increased by a drop in elevation and in air temperature.

Hot air rises because it weighs less than cold air. There are fewer air molecules in a given volume of hot air, there are less air molecules to burn with the fuel. this causes unburnt fuel to exit the combustion chamber, resulting in LESS POWER being produced. For every5.5% rise in air intake temperature, engine power will; reduce by 1 percent!

A sealed system like the original manufactures have them is proven to be better than an open system.

This video shows how to and why "airbox".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSCtRNhb6JE&index=1&list=FLGpj4QFdYABr2vNIljFxQ-w

[318aye]

To be honest, i never really cared much for m20s, since i never owned an m20 car, you have changed my opinion. I just went through your whole thread, and the time, detail, and effort you put in to such a small part of the car is amazing. The picture in post #151 makes me wish i owned an m20. Truely well done sir, im beyond impressed....

Thanks for the kind words, and yeah that's an awesome picture! Photo credit to Jordan Watson @ National Speed.

M20's are fun, simple motors. Hard for me not to like them. The detail stuff is an obsession, I've half assed stuff in the past and really regretted it.

You've inspired me to go ITB on my car.

It's the most fun I've ever had going slow :D

Rama was working on making some airboxes a while back, there was a GRP one made which from memory required somewhat shorter trumpets but only recently i saw this which might be the CFRP version of the same. maybe contact him, he may have tested it and found it works really well

Definitely going to drop him a line here soon. Would be so pumped if he has already done the legwork. Kinda picky about the carbon finish though.

Thanks for the details on airbox - thinking of pulling the trigger on Rama's ITB kit soon, will ask about airbox.

Good call on the air box but it is still the same. You must try and have some pressure in the system I suggest to box your filter like the original manufactures do.

Looks like you made some nice progress, keep going!!:)

Care to elaborate more on your suggestion? Thanks for the kind words!

Not planning any show car bay stuff right now, but that motor is gorgeous.

Thanks for the sprint around W/S this weekend. The sound was intoxicating. Job well done Daniel. :up:

Any time, Dan. Glad you enjoyed it!

Had a fun long weekend, stopped off at The Vintage on Saturday. Great show, highly recommended if you can get out there. Awesome collection of E9's, 2k2's, etc. Car drove great all weekend! Screen filters seemed to do their job (thankfully no rocks to report).

Next on the agenda will be an AKG race shifter, motor/trans mounts, swaybars and some research into an R-134 conversion. All of this will be going on while I do research for the airbox.

Also got to "try on" a Garagistic strut tower brace while at the show, snapped some shots for everyone's reference. These pictures are with the bar sitting on top of the strut nuts. Already hits here, definitely wouldn't clear actually bolted down. I'd estimate you'd need to shed another .5" of trumpet length to get close to fitting. Womp Womp :(.

[N2MYE30]

Thanks for the sprint around W/S this weekend. The sound was intoxicating. Job well done Daniel. :up:

[digger]

Digger maybe you should make and sell your airbox?

cant see that happening

[e30 gangsta]

The problem I see with most e30 itb kits is the lack of an airbox, therefore forcing you to run open stacks, or loss power running filters/screens. When you run no filters dirt sand etc get into the combustion chamber and over time it will wear the cylinder walls.

Not good for a daily driven car or a car you want to get miles out of. Itb kits would be way more popular if they came with a prefabbed airbox so that you do not lose any power, and have the increased benefit of actually filtering the air before it goes into your engine, while also making more power due to cooler denser air.