Canadian Health Care? Is it really like this?

[Kruzen]

nobody said it was perfect. I pointed out that the administrative costs were far too high. But government health care is not the utopian dream everyone thinks it is. Somebody, somewhere has to pay for it.

I saw a quote yesterday that was pretty good - socialism is great, until you run out of somebody else's money.

I hate big goverment but I wouldn't mind seeing privatized healthcare compete with public healthcare, and if you can afford privatized healthcare insurance than you would receive a tax credit or something to make up for what's being taken out of taxes by the fed, since you aren't using the system, you don't pay for the system, type of thing.

I don't know what the answer is, but ultimately the whole system pisses me off. Its a crock of shit.

[nando]

I hate big goverment but I wouldn't mind seeing privatized healthcare compete with public healthcare, and if you can afford privatized healthcare insurance than you would receive a tax credit or something to make up for what's being taken out of taxes by the fed, since you aren't using the system, you don't pay for the system, type of thing.

I don't know what the answer is, but ultimately the whole system pisses me off. Its a crock of shit.

but if we did that then there wouldn't be enough money to fund the government system, since nobody with half a brain would want the government funded care.

also, another reason everything costs so much in two words: malpractice insurance.

I just find it odd that having a doctor now is seen as a "right". I'd call it a damn lucky privelage that we even have doctors that can treat almost anything.

[Turf1600]

Fuck the FDA, are you fucking kidding me? The FDA are some of the biggest fucking crooks in the country.

The problem with healthcare is that costs associated with it are so fucking inflated BECAUSE of policies like insurance.

Do you really thing an open heart surgery ACTUALLY costs anywhere near $150,000?

The power required to run chemotherapy treatments and the money to develop the intravenous chemicals associated with it costs thousands each time after the initial investment in R&D, etc?

Fuck that. The medical industry is one of the biggest fucking crocks of shit in the world. The cost for services rendered is so inflated its ridiculous. Healthcare realistically is reasonable and affordable for everyone in the country, the problem is american greed and corporate greed driving costs up, and insurance companies backing this practice by paying out massive amounts of demanded money on the behalf of their clients.

Do you have any idea what medical billing and insurance is actually like? Obviously not - because if you did you'd realize that with most insurance plans only 40% of charges are covered. That $150,000 bill automatically gets whiddled down to 60k. After that, the insurance company generally only pays an additional fraction of billed charges OR they pay a flat rate, like 10k. The remainder gets written off so that the hospitals can afford to offer emergency care to immigrants and not sink financially. A normal hospital profit margin is 1-1.5%. You try running a business on those kinds of margins! Medicaid, medicare, indigent care and people who don't pay their medical bills are the reason "costs" are so high. Guess who gets fucked here? People who actually have insurance. If you're poor enough or old enough Uncle sam "pays" your medical bills. Their contract rates for most services are below cost. That's right - hospitals lose money on these patients because the govt can't manage their money well enough to hold up their end of the deal. But guess what? Hospitals are required to accept these kinds of insurance.

But wait, it's the hospitals that are crooked, right? The businesses that give out FREE or below cost healthcare and turn a wimpy 1.5% profit margin. Get real man. Don't even get me started on medicare compliance legislation.

EDIT: I forgot to mention how hard it is to actually get paid by insurance companies. There are entire teams dedicated to recovering money that was never paid out by insurance companies. Hospitals can fax in clinicals, get an authorization to perform services and STILL get denied payment due to "lack of medical necessity" or any other BS reason.

[nando]

doctors can refuse medicare patients - and they already started doing that last year. Nobody should have to work for free, especially not after having to go to college for 8-12 years with huge school loans to pay off. where's the incentive? Oh wait, there isn't one. Maybe that's why canada can't get enough doctors. ;)

[Turf1600]

doctors can refuse medicare patients - and they already started doing that last year. Nobody should have to work for free, especially not after having to go to college for 8-12 years with huge school loans to pay off.

Doctors, maybe. Hospitals can not.

This is why I'd rather be a nurse than a doctor.

[lowlightbw]

Do you have any idea what medical billing and insurance is actually like? Obviously not - because if you did you'd realize that with most insurance plans only 40% of charges are covered. That $150,000 bill automatically gets whiddled down to 60k. After that, the insurance company generally only pays an additional fraction of billed charges OR they pay a flat rate, like 10k. The remainder gets written off so that the hospitals can afford to offer emergency care to immigrants and not sink financially. A normal hospital profit margin is 1-1.5%. You try running a business on those kinds of margins! Medicaid, medicare, indigent care and people who don't pay their medical bills are the reason "costs" are so high. Guess who gets fucked here? People who actually have insurance. If you're poor enough or old enough Uncle sam "pays" your medical bills. Their contract rates for most services are below cost. That's right - hospitals lose money on these patients because the govt can't manage their money well enough to hold up their end of the deal. But guess what? Hospitals are required to accept these kinds of insurance.

But wait, it's the hospitals that are crooked, right? The businesses that give out FREE or below cost healthcare and turn a wimpy 1.5% profit margin. Get real man. Don't even get me started on medicare compliance legislation.

EDIT: I forgot to mention how hard it is to actually get paid by insurance companies. There are entire teams dedicated to recovering money that was never paid out by insurance companies. Hospitals can fax in clinicals, get an authorization to perform services and STILL get denied payment due to "lack of medical necessity" or any other BS reason.

truth. death to shitty insurance companies. I am an educator and work for a college and I am still unhappy with our provider. They treat you like a crook from the start rather than treating you like a patron.

[Pinepig]

Big deal so you have to wait. at least its free!
i have kaiser permanente and waited in the emergency room for 5 hours after beign in a motorcycle accident.

Since my wife is an ER RN at our local Kaiser, I've never waited more than 30 seconds in the ER.

[Hallen]

I hate big goverment but I wouldn't mind seeing privatized healthcare compete with public healthcare, and if you can afford privatized healthcare insurance than you would receive a tax credit or something to make up for what's being taken out of taxes by the fed, since you aren't using the system, you don't pay for the system, type of thing.

I don't know what the answer is, but ultimately the whole system pisses me off. Its a crock of shit.

There would not really be any competing between a government system and private systems. The government system won't have to make any money (obviously) and they have infinitly deep pockets (meaning all of our pockets) so they can be sloppy, inefficient and unprofessional and still stay in business. Secondly, they will be the 800lb gorilla and will set pricing just like they do with medicade and medicare. Hospitals will still charge private insurance what they need to and fight for every dime they get, but there will be no fighting with the government system. You get what you get and that's it. Pretty soon, there won't be any privately held hospitals because none of them will be able to make enough to stay in business. I am not talking profit here, I am talking just making payroll and paying the bills. So, you'll end up with a total government system from bottom to top.

Not to mention, if I am buying private insurance, I don't want to have to front the government money for 12 months before I can get my tax credit back. What a load of crap that is. (I'm not poking at you personally there, it's the whole tax credit thing that kinda blows)

What really gets my goat, is that none of these chuckle heads in Washington really know what it takes and what it costs to run a doctor's office or a hospital. Nobody seems to care what the picture really is. Nobody can tell you exactly why it costs so much or why private insurance is so expensive. Yet these are the people who are trying to "fix" the problem.

Their answer is to scrap everything and start up a government program. Man, are we really paying these people? Did we really elect them? If some idiot in my business decided to fix something without first finding out what the problem was, I'd fire them.

People find it offensive that profit is made off of their injury or sickness. I can understand that. But there has to be a motivating factor above and beyond the satisfaction you get from helping people. Doctors and other medical professionals should be highly paid. You want to attract the best and the brightest into the profession so you are going to have to be competitive with other professions. You can't expect people to sacrifice their lives to taking care of your sore throat. People also often want to have a degree of freedom that government service can never allow. It's these reasons why Canada has a problem finding people to work in the medical community.

[BigFurryWhale]

I'm a Canadian and have lived in Canada my entire life. I have had Crohn's disease for almost 10 years now. I have had extensive experience with the healthcare system here in British Columbia including multiple hospital stays (up to a month long) and a major surgery. My honest opinion of our healthcare system is that in general, it is very good. A lot of material that you see critiquing our healthcare system (like the posted video) assumes that you don't have a family doctor. I am fortunate to have a family doctor, and I would personally never go without one (especially given my long-term health problems).

My experience is this: If I ever want a blood test, or am feeling sick, or would like to see a doctor I can either call my family doctor and have an appointment scheduled typically within 2 days, or I can go to a walk in clinic and typically wait half an hour and see a doctor. I have a GI specialist for my Crohn's disease who I see every few months, and if I am in need of more urgent attention I can usually get in to see him within a week or two if I really need to. Last year I was very sick and needed surgery. I had to wait about a week and a half for this surgery. ER waiting times are somewhat of a crapshoot. People are correct when they say that you often have to wait for many hours in the waiting room even if you are obviously in need of attention.

Cliffs: I have a lot of experience in our healthcare system here in Canada, I think it's very good (it has been for me anyway). If you are really in need of care, you will get it (in general). We pay high taxes here, but to me it is totally worth it.

[Turf1600]

There would not really be any competing between a government system and private systems. The government system won't have to make any money (obviously) and they have infinitly deep pockets (meaning all of our pockets) so they can be sloppy, inefficient and unprofessional and still stay in business. Secondly, they will be the 800lb gorilla and will set pricing just like they do with medicade and medicare. Hospitals will still charge private insurance what they need to and fight for every dime they get, but there will be no fighting with the government system. You get what you get and that's it. Pretty soon, there won't be any privately held hospitals because none of them will be able to make enough to stay in business. I am not talking profit here, I am talking just making payroll and paying the bills. So, you'll end up with a total government system from bottom to top.

Not to mention, if I am buying private insurance, I don't want to have to front the government money for 12 months before I can get my tax credit back. What a load of crap that is. (I'm not poking at you personally there, it's the whole tax credit thing that kinda blows)

What really gets my goat, is that none of these chuckle heads in Washington really know what it takes and what it costs to run a doctor's office or a hospital. Nobody seems to care what the picture really is. Nobody can tell you exactly why it costs so much or why private insurance is so expensive. Yet these are the people who are trying to "fix" the problem.

Their answer is to scrap everything and start up a government program. Man, are we really paying these people? Did we really elect them? If some idiot in my business decided to fix something without first finding out what the problem was, I'd fire them.

People find it offensive that profit is made off of their injury or sickness. I can understand that. But there has to be a motivating factor above and beyond the satisfaction you get from helping people. Doctors and other medical professionals should be highly paid. You want to attract the best and the brightest into the profession so you are going to have to be competitive with other professions. You can't expect people to sacrifice their lives to taking care of your sore throat. People also often want to have a degree of freedom that government service can never allow. It's these reasons why Canada has a problem finding people to work in the medical community.

X1000. Without private healthcare we'd have few reasons for advancement.

[retardotyler]

Just pretend to pass out.. you get right in.

[robmespeedy]

how is it free if you are paying for it through your taxes?

Unless you don't plan on ever working and just living off what the government gives you. Oh, wait..

Well duh! but we all dont go by what me make gross. its all about what you take home. thats why to me its considered free. even if you didnt want to pay for it. You cant your fucked.
kinda like those weak ass unions. u pay them a monthly fee and they dont seem to do shit for you.

[robmespeedy]

Since my wife is an ER RN at our local Kaiser, I've never waited more than 30 seconds in the ER.

well must be nice!

[Pinepig]

well must be nice!

Hell sometimes I don't even pass through the waiting room.

[h0lmes]

Well in the end, there are still private clinics available for the people that would like to go that route. I think it is a good system for people that really have nothing at all. Also, accidents happen all the time in private medicine so the criticism from the french speaking lady is irrelevant.

The real problem with our system is that it is just too expensive. Drug companies spend 10x as much on advertising as they do on everything else. Medical treatment does not need to be advertised to the extent that it is.