Finance/Investing ITT

[rwh11385]

But silver doesn't have much purpose. Oil, land, water, steel, gold do. But everyone has gold - or CASH4GOLD wouldn't have so many stores.

Still to the guns and ammo investment plan of your neighbors, it makes more sense.

[Farbin Kaiber]

I was never talking about paper for gold. I was talking about buying silver for personal possession as a backup plan. Tangible, in hand, in a fucking lockbox under your fucking bed status.

Like, cheap insurance to have the ability to buy a loaf of bread with a real dime when others are getting crumbs for a handyj.

[rwh11385]

I know, and what I was saying all along is, when the units get reset, paper values are worth nothing. You wouldn't be able to pay for supper at the local place with 2500 shares of GE.

Or even one share. The person you give it to can't go and cash it in for more carrots for a stew next week.

When project mayhem resets it, your paper ownership of gold won't be any better...


And why grain alcohol? Methane from a digester would seem more self-contained for a farm. People could be a lot more self-reliant if they valued it more, and prepared for the fiat money / zombie apocalypse.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Just because a monetary system "units" would be reset, does not mean nothing has value anymore. A barrel of oil is still worth 5 cows, a handy still worth a dinner out, and service at the dinner is a bottle cap or two.

I know, and what I was saying all along is, when the units get reset, paper values are worth nothing. You wouldn't be able to pay for supper at the local place with 2500 shares of GE.

Or even one share. The person you give it to can't go and cash it in for more carrots for a stew next week.

[Farbin Kaiber]

well i obviously wasn't being serious, I'm just saying, that's likely what would happen.

I know you were not. I was just saying I was.

so how would gold be any different? what are you going to buy with it, if nobody is producing or trading anything?

I should revise my statement to very few will be buying products. Those with alternate forms of payment anyway. And on a much more localized manner. They guy with gold will be buying veggies and still produced grain alcohol to run in modified farm implements/generators. Nobody is gonna be buying low cost cotton outerwear from eastern China.

[nando]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/...t=1&f=93559255

Gas is actually extremely cheap these days. Because of bernanke's antics it's expensive in dollars.

With fuel @$3.89, gold at 1508 and silver at 47.50, gas costs:
.0026/oz gold
.082/oz silver

In 1991, gas cost .00284oz gold and .28 oz silver. And in 1961 Gas cost .0088 oz gold and .24 oz of silver.

except you are using an inflated commodity as your comparison. actually, it only shows that gold/silver are in a bubble (IMO). Because demand for oil has increased many, many times since 1961, and the price in real terms with it. Beyond jewlery & relatively limited industrial apps, demand for gold/silver (other than mania/stockpiling) really hasn't. the supply of gold/silver however has.

[rwh11385]

^ Well, those Co.'s you suggest would go bankrupt overnight like Brawndo. Nobody buying the product, no "value" in their value.

Just because a monetary system "units" would be reset, does not mean nothing has value anymore. A barrel of oil is still worth 5 cows, a handy still worth a dinner out, and service at the dinner is a bottle cap or two.

[nando]

^ Well, those Co.'s you suggest would go bankrupt overnight like Brawndo. Nobody buying the product, no "value" in their value.

so how would gold be any different? what are you going to buy with it, if nobody is producing or trading anything?

[nando]

Do you really think you'll be coming and taking the food of some guy that is suggesting the investment into gold/silver and moved to Ruralsville, ID to grow his own food/animals?


OPSEC limits me from telling you what you'd have in store.

well i obviously wasn't being serious, I'm just saying, that's likely what would happen.

[Farbin Kaiber]

^ Well, those Co.'s you suggest would go bankrupt overnight like Brawndo. Nobody buying the product, no "value" in their value.

[rwh11385]

Tulips.

I love it when people who understand this reference and know this is not the first time the world has experienced bubbles. I brought it out at a client's annual board meeting.


And people are seemingly ignorant that the USD has been the third best performing currency in the last 100 years...

All these *ifs* about fiat money becoming worthless... But I'm advocating buying part in all companies. If paper money is no longer worth anything, aren't the companies worth something?

Like you mentioned, most commodities are just pieces of papers too, which aren't any better than paper for % of a company. If you are stocking M4s, gold bricks, and cans of beans like mr.sleeve then that's another story.

[Kruzen]

Tulips.

Oil has many, many uses and drives most of the world's economy. Gold is useful for electronics, some industrial applications and... shiney trinkets? if 90% of the world's gold supply disappeared, would we still have more than enough of for all of the uses in manufacturing and electronics? I think yes..

where does demand for gold/silver come from?

where does demand for oil come from?

there are many, many examples of limited resources that have been in bubbles. *everything* has limited resources. Unless you've found the secret of perpetual motion.. ;)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/15/131430755/a-chemist-explains-why-gold-beat-out-lithium-osmium-einsteinium?ft=1&f=93559255

Gas is actually extremely cheap these days. Because of bernanke's antics it's expensive in dollars.

With fuel @$3.89, gold at 1508 and silver at 47.50, gas costs:
.0026/oz gold
.082/oz silver

In 1991, gas cost .00284oz gold and .28 oz silver. And in 1961 Gas cost .0088 oz gold and .24 oz of silver.

[samiam3356]

You really think there is gonna be a bubble on a limited resource? That's like saying the oil bubble is gonna pop and we will be back to 99c/gal. for fuel.

You really think there isn't?

and there's your market. People betting on it going down and people betting on it going up. The house(broker) wins no matter what.

I was a finance major in college and was an advisor for 8 years. 5 years with Ag Edwards and 3 with Wachovia Securities. Funny how over time the title on stock brokers changed to Financial Advisor. 85% of them are just really good salesmen. Some of the best advisors usually don't do too well because they are not charasmatic and not very good at selling. However, there are SOME that actually are very good. And yes there is a need for them in some circumstances. When your talking about people with millions of dollars and multiples trust accounts setup it can get pretty complicated for a 80 year old woman that got left a lot of money from her husband or what not. It's a very greedy business and what eventually led me to change out of a career that I use to love.

Anyhow, it's all about time in the market and the compounding of dollars. Its been mentioned before in this thread about taking advantage of employer matching on retirement accounts and it could not be more true. It's like getting a 100% return on your money up to the match if its dollar for dollar.

[Kershaw]

It's not tough. Invest money 44% - 28% - 28% in VTI - VNQ - VEU (for example).

vti and vnq dont look like it's the right time to buy them. right time to sell though. veu looks solid though.

my one great success was hk.1211 (iirc) they make batteries for electric cars. i read about them in GQ, they said buffet had staked them 20m or something. i researched them and they seemed really legit. bought in at 14, sold out way too soon. still made a boat load. they are sitting at 65-70 now, or higher.. i dont want to check. haha.

the loss that made me call it quits was a bio penny stock a friend referred me to. i made 2k on a friday. he said it'll only go up. i shoveled more money at it. lost a decent bit over the next week. we're talking about 8k of loss.

when i was 12, i wanted to put 50k in google when they went public. but i didnt trust myself because i was only 12. but i knew they were gonna be big. kinda wish i had. haha.

#1 post college mistake = new/pricey car !!

made this mistake IN college. i paid in cash so i dont have a car payment anyway. but insurance was $375/month when i first got it.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Do you really think you'll be coming and taking the food of some guy that is suggesting the investment into gold/silver and moved to Ruralsville, ID to grow his own food/animals?


OPSEC limits me from telling you what you'd have in store.