Fundemental difference between Liberals and Conservatives

[CorvallisBMW]

eat an organic dick

^^ Blunts 3rd or 4th alter-ego

I think the fundamental difference is fairly simple.

Liberals tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of society as whole.

Conservatives tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of the individual.

Neither is right or wrong, just a difference in what you think is more important.

I believe that for most of human history conservatism has been the way to go. Within an agrarian society it makes no sense to think of society as a whole. Each person has their own land, grows their own food, builds their own house, makes their own clothes, defends their own property, etc. Your life involved you, your family, and no one else.

But in a modern society with cities, communities and a move away from rural, agrarian environments, the self-sustaining human being is no more. We all rely on someone else to survive, to provide us with food, clothes, products, etc. We are no longer solitary beings, we are increasingly part of a larger community. In the modern age I think conservatism has less relevance than it used to. It's less about 'Me Myself and I' and more about 'Me, my community and my society'. Liberalism will ultimately become the 'norm', just as conservatism used to be. One must only look at modern societies all over the world to observe this trend.

There are still plenty of places in the USA and throughout the world that maintain an agrarian society (such as the Midwest) and it works great for them. Conservatism in those areas makes a lot of sense, and one need only look at the last several presidential election maps to see that rural states vote conservative. On the other hand, most people in cities have no need for this kind of self-interest and are more concerned about the greater good, because they know that if their neighbors are in trouble it's bound to spill over to them.

This is why states with large urban populations tend to vote liberal, and states with large rural populations vote conservative.

Neither is better or worse, they are just different, and each fits it's own demographic. Conservatism isn't about being selfish, it's about being self-sufficient. And Liberalism isn't about entitlement, it's about improving society as a whole.

[iamsam]

err at birth. i think the law is pretty clear on it. on this particular issue i agree my religious views (or lack thereof) probably influence my viewpoint. however, i don't think your blanket theory holds water as has been mentioned by a few self professed conservatives even.

whoa, whoa, its not a blanket theory my friend! i know it does not apply to everyone! said so myself! Its only one of the notable correlations i have seen. That's all.

See if life begins at birth, then what happens when a baby is C-sectioned? is the baby not alive yet until the original due date? What exactly goes on when the baby is born that gives the baby something it didn't have a minute before it was born?

[iamsam]

I think the fundamental difference is fairly simple.

Liberals tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of society as whole.

Conservatives tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of the individual.

this i think is one of the better points made. This does make sense. with a few exceptions of course. ;)

[KenC]

Yeah that is pretty hilarious :D :D

My strongest theory is a lack of understanding in human nature, which leads to a high degree of naivety. Second, liberals tend to be much more emotional and base their thoughts and actions on feelings rather than logic. Of course, these are just general observations based on my experiences.

Can I read your thesis on human nature when I get home from work today? ;)

PS Let's go mob you cabby on the new suspension tonight :)

[CorvallisBMW]

PS Let's go mob you cabby on the new suspension tonight :)

we'll mob both :)

that's if Joey ever gets his ass over here so we can start work. 2 hours late, freakin 'Joey Time' :P

[gwb72tii]

conservatives believe in the potential of the individual to do what is right
liberals are just plain fucked up

[Aptyp]

I don't think it's that simple. some people are a mix of both and don't like being categorized one way or the other. it's nothing to do with optimism or pessimism either. these are very simplistic outlooks on a much more complex viewpoint as usual. Take my case:

- abortion: yes please
- gay marriage : let em do it
- death penalty : no
- gun control : don't own a gun but against banning them. i do support strict regulation and licensing and making sure all safety aspects are followed
- religion: im a buddhist which imo= atheist. i don't believe in god.
- income bracket : i pay 35% in taxes, go figure out which bracket
- homeowner : yes
- in favor of burning gasoline : hell yes
- do i believe in global warming : yes but don't think emissions laws on autos is going to help much
- economics : favor fiscal conservatism, cutting military spending and reforming the tax code (gee i wonder why :))
- wall st greed : all for it, i work on wall st.
- wars in iraq/afghanistan : against them, bring the troops home and stop spending $3000/second
- universal healthcare : judgement is still out but we definitely need to fix the current system
- immigration : for reform and providing a means of legalizing the people that are here.

that's just a few topics.. so what am I ?

I like that categorization. Some people are very stuck on one or two issues and that makes them ally with a party.

I am a conservative, but by no means republican. I align with republican party for McCain, but I aligned with democrats for Gore. I hated Carry and no matter what happens, I won't vote for Romney if chooses to run.

On that note, here's my survey:

- abortion: beter not be my girlfriend, but that's because I'll take care of my own, others should be alowwed to make their own PERSONAL decision. So, in short: government shold have no say on this issue at all.
- gay marriage: just don't propose to me, otherwise do your thang.
- death penalty: absolutly.
- gun control: I am all for gun control, but not disarmenment of American people. Psycological profiling is designed to keep guns away from people, and I am gainst it.
- religion: agnostic. More than anything, I had masses of people, who think exactly the same thing. I've never met any two people, who agree on everything and arent' high or medicated, so I fear congregations.
- income bracket: I spend nearly everything I make, I save very little, but I am all for being taxed on what I spend. It's more than fair. If I had my income tax, I'd either spend it (helping existing businesses) or saved in the bank (helping new businesses).
- homeowner: no
- in favor of burning gasoline: personally no, but if you pay for it, do your thang (running theme)
- do i believe in global warming: yes, and at one time Greenland was occupied by vikings and was able to sustain an agricultural society. Those damn Vikes and their gas-guzzlers. It's a natural reoccurance, even if humans did aid it a little.
- economics : fair tax. free market. No unions. Partial isolationism to bring jobs back.
- wall st greed: American dream, make something of nothing. Greedy people invested and got ripped off by greedier people. It's fair. Theft is theft, though.
- wars in iraq/afghanistan: against them, but we need to keep our uniformed boys and girls conditioned.
- universal healthcare: allow true free market system to do it's work. Competition is a healthy thing.
- immigration: 100% for it. US recruits top brains from around the world, extends visa's and greencards to their families, than complain about people outstaying their welcome. Besides, people swim channels and walk desserts to be here, if that's not patriotism, I don't know what it.
- drugs: do your thang. Cigarretes are legal, doesn't mean I have to smoke them.

[trent]

glad to give you a laugh! in my experience, it has been the most prominent difference. Not saying its true all around, that is why i started this thread. This is so because i have just failed to see any other larger differences, because there are Liberals and Conservatives that are both rich and poor, rural and urban, all different types of backgrounds, etc.

So, if you were laughing so hysterically, tell me something about why you think they way you do, enlighten me. What do you think the major difference is?

The reason why he is saying this is because God isn't as prominent as you think on the right side. I am (and most of my family) are not religious but consider myself an extreme member of the FAR-FAR-FAR-RIGHT wing. Most of the people over here are big time bible thumpers -- not for me. Do I have a problem with people who choose to worship? Not at all, this great land was founded with God in mind afterall.

If you don't know the real differences between left & right, you have a LOT to learn. There is a huge difference between them; there are religious people and bible thumpers on both sides of the spectrum.

I am a believer in Borders, Language, and Culture.

[Hallen]

^^ Blunts 3rd or 4th alter-ego

I think the fundamental difference is fairly simple.

Liberals tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of society as whole.

Conservatives tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of the individual.

Neither is right or wrong, just a difference in what you think is more important.

I believe that for most of human history conservatism has been the way to go. Within an agrarian society it makes no sense to think of society as a whole. Each person has their own land, grows their own food, builds their own house, makes their own clothes, defends their own property, etc. Your life involved you, your family, and no one else.

But in a modern society with cities, communities and a move away from rural, agrarian environments, the self-sustaining human being is no more. We all rely on someone else to survive, to provide us with food, clothes, products, etc. We are no longer solitary beings, we are increasingly part of a larger community. In the modern age I think conservatism has less relevance than it used to. It's less about 'Me Myself and I' and more about 'Me, my community and my society'. Liberalism will ultimately become the 'norm', just as conservatism used to be. One must only look at modern societies all over the world to observe this trend.

There are still plenty of places in the USA and throughout the world that maintain an agrarian society (such as the Midwest) and it works great for them. Conservatism in those areas makes a lot of sense, and one need only look at the last several presidential election maps to see that rural states vote conservative. On the other hand, most people in cities have no need for this kind of self-interest and are more concerned about the greater good, because they know that if their neighbors are in trouble it's bound to spill over to them.

This is why states with large urban populations tend to vote liberal, and states with large rural populations vote conservative.

Neither is better or worse, they are just different, and each fits it's own demographic. Conservatism isn't about being selfish, it's about being self-sufficient. And Liberalism isn't about entitlement, it's about improving society as a whole.

Nicely stated. I also understand that this is your interpretation of the different views and I respect that.

The world is complex enough where just looking out for society as a whole or looking out for the individual is too restrictive. It is obvious that a liberal will look out for themselves and their family just as a conservative does care about society as a whole.

I would also argue that liberals are more prevalent in populated and urban areas than rural areas not because of the reasons you state, but because of the presence of societal factors and the government continually. In the city, the government is in your face all the time. Public transit, public utilities, police, fire, schools, rent control, sidewalk crossing signs, etc, everywhere you look, you are, by necessity, faced with government oversight. It is natural then to accept this as the norm and expect that the government is necessary to take care of 'other people'. Life in big cities forces you into contact with the anonymous masses every day and the only way to cope with that is through a "societal" viewpoint. The individual becomes anonymous.

In a more rural environment, you are forced to rely more on yourself. If you need help, you call your neighbor, not the government. If you want to put up a new barn, you build it. You might not see police officer for days or weeks at a time. They can live their lives just fine without daily interaction with government agencies. The people you see every day are more than likely familiar to you. You are not anonymous.

To counter all of that above of course is the simple fact that those molds don't fit everybody, not even close. Just like your statements above, it is a generalism (which is why you used the word "tend").

As a conservative, I can buy into the fact that I would tend to put more emphasis on personal well-being than societal. Why? Simply because one begets the other. Without the personal well being, you can't have societal well being. It's as simple as that. If your house is a mess, you will bring society down, not just yourself. If society is a mess, it brings everybody down. If society is perfect, it does not follow that individuals are perfect. If individuals are perfect, it naturally follows that society will be perfect as well.

The older you get, and the more you deal with organizations and governments, the more you realize that it is a collection of individuals. The end result of that organization is the culmination of all the individuals involved. The organization cannot achieve anything without the individual. People make the difference, not governments. Our society is based on this idea. It is what the constitution is about. Our constitution is not there to protect government from the people, it is there to protect the people from the government because the founders understood the evils therein.

One final point in this long "Life according to Eric" essay. Society does not equal government and government does not equal society. They are two separate things and must remain separate just as the church and the state must remain separate. To put society before individual, we all become nothing more than a numbered cog in the wheel. Anonymous, unnecessary in the big picture, subservient to society. (in this context, "society" means the government)

We decide. However, the day we decide to allow our government to mold our society is the day we die.

[decay]

right, and because they are college kids and think the way they do creates the political bias.

maybe college kids' attitudes do tend to result in a liberal bias. (having lived in seattle's u-district, i am well-acquainted with that particular attitude.)

that doesn't mean everyone with a liberal bias has a college-kid attitude, or level of maturity.

correlation doesn't imply causation; people can be liberal for other reasons.

if death is the end, what would living carefully and with self-awareness be?

whatever makes any individual feel that they are maximizing the potential of their own life; whether that be to their own personal benefit, or society's.

(see? absence of religion doesn't necessarily result in a political bias. :D)

[kishg]

i think we can pretty clearly debunk the religion theory. i think it has a lot to do with parents, upbringing, economic status, line of work (e.g. wall st bankers tend not to be socialists lol) etc. just like any other bias people have. btw, to throw more of a monkey wrench into the categorization, I agree with Ron Paul on a lot of issues (not all). I think he is one of the few politicians with integrity today and puts his money where his mouth is.

[whiltebeitel]

- abortion: For it. It's a choice that is up to her.
- gay marriage: For it. To not extent the same rights to gays is discrimination in my mind.
- death penalty: Yup. Leave it to the states to handle the administration thereof.
- gun control: It don't need to be any harsher than it already is. 99% of the people that LEGALLY buy these "assault weapons" are responsible people that like to go out to the middle of nowhere and plink, the rest either hunt or collect the arms for their personal enjoyment. Laws won't stop illegal arms traffickers.
- religion: I'm psedo-christian. Not a Bible-beater, but I believe in God and a reward for doing good deeds and punishment for leading a "evil" life.
- income bracket: Make about $35k/yr, when I'm not at school.
- homeowner: Renter.
- in favor of burning gasoline: Fuck yeah, but in favor of limiting vehicle weights and increased efficiency (I would support well-crafted government guidance, but that's like expecting me to kick Anderson Silva's ass)
- Do I believe in global warming: Al Gore is full of shit. The environment is important, but let academic research be the way forward, not political pandering and agendas.
- economics : Again, I'm pretty moderate: the govt can be a help here, but private industry needs to be fully accountable for their screwups. I'm very anti-union, with OSHA and such taking the necessity out of unions.
- wall st greed: Accountablity will bring moderation. Don't commit outright fraud, but making a killing is not a crime in itself, and the govt. shouldn't bail you out if you screw up.
- wars in iraq/afghanistan: For them.
- universal healthcare: Very against it.There is enough accommodation for those that can't afford it already. Malpractice lawsuits should be severely limited from what they have been in the past.
- immigration: I would like to see better control and more deportations of illegals, but not an all-out war against non-citizens.
- drugs: Eh, I could care less about weed, but I hate druggies in general, and think it should stay illegal.

Also, I hate the "let's sue everyone" mentality, esp. the outrageous sums paid out in excessive tort decisions.

Cliffs: Accountability FTW. Social Liberal? Fiscal Conservative?

[ACMF74]

Parents also play a huge factor into how people think.

Then there are optimistics and pessimistics.
My friends who are liberal are optimistic and think that all these bail outs MIGHT work because people MIGHT be nice to each other.
I'm pessimistic and know they won't work because humans as a race are greedy and selfish. It is what it is.

that pretty much sums it up....

[Turf1600]

Sometimes I feel like people who participate heavily in these threads and type out small books in the process are only seeking confirmation of their perspective.

[Alkasquawlik]

Sometimes I feel like people who participate heavily in these threads and type out small books in the process are only seeking confirmation of their perspective.

Just because we enjoy having an intellectual conversation that differs from the usual cock/balls/waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles/****** threads on r3v?