Man carrying assault weapon attends Obama protest

[Massimo]

Well you all love your guns. Anyways after think about this last night a lot i came to the conclusion banning guns may or may not help the situation, but making people more responsable for there guns is what needs to be done. Let me explain.

For example if guns were banned, an criminal would not turn his gun in and would probably sell it to someone who wants to kill, once this gun kills someone the guy who owned was the origianl owner will not liable, he could just say it was stole or lost.

Now the other alternative is everyone has record with information like what guns they own weather they can cc or oc there gun bla bla bla. Make it madiatory that all guns not being used must be stored in a safe bolted to the ground. Now make gun owners responsable for there gun, so if it is stolen or lost you must report that the weapon was stolen emidiatly. If this becomes a regular occurance for you then you gun license will be revocted. If your gun is stolen or lost and you do not report this and the gun then becomes evidance in a crime you could face the same penalties as the crimins because you then become an accessory to the crime. This way there should be less not non illigal ownership of guns.

What do you guys think?

[Vedubin01]

you should read our Constitution then give us some ideas. Our forefathers wrote it in the Constitution to protect its people from its Government. IT also protects the country from invasion of another country. No country would ever fight the USA on its own soil. There's a gun behind every blade of grass here. The United States is so much different than any other country because of it. Our laws or the lack of is what made America as great as it is. There is no other country in the world as great as we still are even with all the BS going on today

[Hallen]

I read through a lot of this, but I didn't see the main reason for having the 2nd amendment. The term "well armed militia" has a meaning to it and it isn't referring to formal military or police organizations.

Basically, the way I take it, is that every American has the responsibility to defend the country.
But secondly, and more importantly, it is a nod by the framers of the constitution that every American has the same rights as the government and if necessary, can defend themselves against the government. It is the invisible leg of the power triangle of government (executive, legislative, and judicial for those of you who have no idea what I am talking about). It is a balancing factor that tells our government to not tread on us. We will fight back.

So, like any power used sanely, it is there as a deterrent. I sincerely hope that we never need to exercise that power. But what does it say about the kind of person who wants to remove that deterrent?

Although I am fully trained in the use of many fire arms from basic hunting rifles, to fully automatic weapons (the "assault" gun style automatic is horribly overrated btw. nobody can hit shit with them and you would probably hit more people by half-assed aiming a semi-automatic at a crowd than you would on fully automatic), to different type of hand guns (and even grenade and rocket launchers. lighting up that old Ma deuce is earth shattering :) ) But I have never felt the need to own or carry a gun. The chances of ever needing one where I live and with what I do is not worth the effort. If I had a different job or lived somewhere else, maybe.

Registration systems don't work very well btw there Massimo. It just makes it harder for legal citizens to get guns while not making it any harder for the bad guys to get guns. There are some things that can be done to restrict the flow to the bad guys though and it would be nice to see some of those holes closed.

Edit: Haha, Vdub said what I said with half the words....

[Pinepig]

Making responsible people jump through MORE hoops will not affect what bad people do, THEY DON"T CARE.

It's very easy to understand that laws do not prevent criminals from doing what they do, from simple speeding to serial killers, if the person can rationalize the act, they will do it. Words on a piece of paper and signed by some politician DOES NOT STOP CRIME.

Tell us it's not true so we can laugh at the fact you live in some dream world.

[Vedubin01]

For example,

This is the only power the Congress has over its people.

Nothing about health care, bigger government, etc... This is what is fucked with our country right now.


Article 1 Section 8 of the US constitution - Power of Congress.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

[Quadrajet]

Uh no. The government has no right to know what or how much of anything anyone owns period. All that does is give them those wonderful lists, like England and Australia had, so they can round them up and coerce the owners into giving them up or go to jail.

Just the same as the government should not be able to tell me what to say or when I can say it. In this country we may be getting ready to have another go-round on this subject.

The fact of the matter is this, not only "criminals" do bad things. About 3 or 4 years ago this guy here in Washington, he was like 19 or 20, decided he didn't need to be on his meds anymore. After a few days he was mentally out of it. He was attacking and beating down a 52year old grandfather in public. The grandfather then decided to draw his weapon and stop the attack.
The attacker subsequently died. Then his relatives were all over the TV saying what a choir boy he was and he shouldn't have been shot blah blah blah. Then his uncle made the assertion that someone should have given him his meds. No really? Ya think? I was wondering where his family's concern was right after his decision to stop taking his meds. They knew all about his condition, and yet it's the guy who had defend himself's fault,because of their lack of responsibility for their relative.

[Joey Link]

Well you all love your guns. Anyways after think about this last night a lot i came to the conclusion banning guns may or may not help the situation, but making people more responsable for there guns is what needs to be done. Let me explain.

For example if guns were banned, an criminal would not turn his gun in and would probably sell it to someone who wants to kill, once this gun kills someone the guy who owned was the origianl owner will not liable, he could just say it was stole or lost.

Now the other alternative is everyone has record with information like what guns they own weather they can cc or oc there gun bla bla bla. Make it madiatory that all guns not being used must be stored in a safe bolted to the ground. Now make gun owners responsable for there gun, so if it is stolen or lost you must report that the weapon was stolen emidiatly. If this becomes a regular occurance for you then you gun license will be revocted. If your gun is stolen or lost and you do not report this and the gun then becomes evidance in a crime you could face the same penalties as the crimins because you then become an accessory to the crime. This way there should be less not non illigal ownership of guns.

What do you guys think?

I think the others have summed up why this isn't acceptable here. However, I want to tell you that I appreciate someone taking the time to look critically at an issue from another point of view and perhaps change their position.

[Massive Lee]

The argument of self-defense is often used to support the need to have weapons at home or to carry one. What percentage of gun owners had to actually use a gun to defend themself against an attacker?

[Vedubin01]

I see it as like family business, if your not family... you would not understand. Most people that are anti gun have never handled a gun in the first place. They see the movies and the local news and think that everyone that owns guns are either redneck, raciest, or close mined. But its the bigger picture that everyone seems to forget.

[Vedubin01]

The argument of self-defense is often used to support the need to have weapons at home or to carry one. What percentage of gun owners had to actually use a gun to defend themself against an attacker?

I dont think you quite get it.

[Joey Link]

The argument of self-defense is often used to support the need to have weapons at home or to carry one. What percentage of gun owners had to actually use a gun to defend themself against an attacker?

As I've said before in this thread, roughly 2 million per year in the US.

[Massimo]

Well you just can't someone to stop something they have been doing for years and expect it to happen life is about comprimises on both parties sides. I'm shore you would all agree that the death rate due to guns in the U.S is not good and something should be done about it. But i also understand that just banning guns won't solve the problem eithor. But at the end of the day if it takes you a little long for you to get your gun and that will stop maybe some shootings or maybe reduce the amount of illegal guns then, I think both parties can be happy in that.

What i suggested before may not be the best solution, but instead of trying to convert each other to pro or anti guns we should be working to come up with a solution that meets half way, in some respect.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What part of "shall not be infringed" dont you guys get. How much plainer can it be, its simple queens English. (or isn't that not taught in schools any more???)

One of the perils of living in a free society is that you will not be safe from all threats all the time with protection from the state. Its not the job of the Police to prevent crime, its to solve the crime and catch the person that commits the crime. The founding fathers intended on personal responsibility to be the dominant form of govt, and you are supposed to be responsible for keeping your own ass safe hence the 2a



I have not had to draw, but I am sure mine has saved me from great bodily harm.

quick story, 5pm gas station bad side of town in Lansing MI, just got off work (job was in that area) went into the store to get a beverage. As I was leaving 4 large ethic early 20 somethings made it clear that they "were gonna fuck up a white boy" while spreading out and trying to cut off any escape route. I tossed my pop in the bed of my truck (40 feet away) quartered my gun away from them and put my hand under my jacket and made ready to defend my self. Well these guys realized that I was more than likely armed an would use it. I got the "We dont want no trouble man" line and they went back the way they came. Some guy got assaulted 4 blocks away latter that night.

The argument of self-defense is often used to support the need to have weapons at home or to carry one. What percentage of gun owners had to actually use a gun to defend themself against an attacker?

[Vedubin01]

Well you just can't someone to stop something they have been doing for years and expect it to happen life is about comprimises on both parties sides. I'm shore you would all agree that the death rate due to guns in the U.S is not good and something should be done about it. But i also understand that just banning guns won't solve the problem eithor. But at the end of the day if it takes you a little long for you to get your gun and that will stop maybe some shootings or maybe reduce the amount of illegal guns then, I think both parties can be happy in that.

What i suggested before may not be the best solution, but instead of trying to convert each other to pro or anti guns we should be working to come up with a solution that meets half way, in some respect.

no compromise! period!

How about talking about how many deaths are caused by Cigarettes and Drunk Driving? Thats not written in the Constitution and can be changed or banned.

[dvs909]

i find it funny that the police said they were there to keep the peace on both sides. hippies getting violent over a man legally carrying a gun? LOL!