Shit hits the fan in Fort Hood, Texas. 50 casualties.

[Emre]

I find nothing wrong with pointing out and warning people not to be fooled by Political correctness forcing a happy cover over a ticking bomb. i am not the only one using hateful language. ISLAM IS! if you have read the versus i posted, or even the quran itself you would know this.

Dude. Get over yourself. I studied Middle Eastern history in college. My sister has a Ph.D. in Middle Eastern History from Harvard (she's now a professor of Islamic Studies). My girlfriend as a Ph.D. in Middle Eastern History as well. Unlike you, we've actually taken the time to read about this stuff. And none of us are Muslim, so we're hardly apologists.

But that's what intelligent, educated people do. They read. And they focus their reading on primary sources and well-respected scholarly literature...not alarmist websites run by Christian fundamentalists. It's clear from your posts that you have NOT, in fact, read the Quran and know almost nothing about Islam. Someone who claims there are 6 pillars of Islam is obviously pretty damned ignorant about it!

i see no irony because there is none. this attitude you have is dangerous and ignorant, and mirrors the attitudes of post WW1 europe which allowed Germany to become so dangerous.

If anything allowed Germany to become dangerous, it was the fact that ignorant, bigoted masses got caught up in the paranoid us-vs-them rhetoric spewed by hateful, manipulative, and megalomaniacal leaders. Reread your last few posts and think about that.

[dvs909]

[QUOTE=Emre;1745089]

I find nothing wrong with pointing out and warning people not to be fooled by Political correctness forcing a happy cover over a ticking bomb. i am not the only one using hateful language. ISLAM IS! if you have read the versus i posted, or even the quran itself you would know this.Dude. Get over yourself. I studied Middle Eastern history in college. My sister has a Ph.D. in Middle Eastern History from Harvard (she's now a professor of Islamic Studies). My girlfriend as a Ph.D. in Middle Eastern History as well. Unlike you, we've actually taken the time to read about this stuff. And none of us are Muslim, so we're hardly apologists.

But that's what intelligent, educated people do. They read. And they focus their reading on primary sources and well-respected scholarly literature...not alarmist websites run by Christian fundamentalists.

If anything allowed Germany to become dangerous, it was the fact that ignorant, bigoted masses that were swayed by paranoid us-vs-them rhetoric spewed by hateful, manipulative, and megalomaniacal leaders.

Dude get over yourself. My dad can beat up your dad.
while i hold no Ph.D in history, i have the ability to read... not websites but the quran. all i have argued is straight from the muslim holybook.
you havent had a single logical response to any of this.

[Emre]

i have the ability to read... not websites but the quran. all i have argued is straight from the muslim holybook.

The fact that you seem to know nothing about the Quran suggests the opposite. Seems to me like you've read a couple of verses. You've shown that you don't even know the very basics. Makes it kind of hard to take your views seriously.

[kronus]

Dude get over yourself. My dad can beat up your dad.
while i hold no Ph.D in history, i have the ability to read... not websites but the quran. all i have argued is straight from the muslim holybook.
you havent had a single logical response to any of this.

We don't need no newfangled edumacation! We've got baseless hyperbole!


Your statements are ridiculous. Your dismissal of people who clearly have a wider and deeper background in what you're trying to argue about is ridiculous. Your propensity to ignore people with valid arguments against your broad generalizations is ridiculous.

[kishg]

Your statements are ridiculous. Your dismissal of people who clearly have a wider and deeper background in what you're trying to argue about is ridiculous. Your propensity to ignore people with valid arguments against your broad generalizations is ridiculous.

/thread

[dvs909]

We don't need no newfangled edumacation! We've got baseless hyperbole!


Your statements are ridiculous. Your dismissal of people who clearly have a wider and deeper background in what you're trying to argue about is ridiculous. Your propensity to ignore people with valid arguments against your broad generalizations is ridiculous.

My statements arn't ridiculous, they are based in fact. none of them have made a valid argument. none of them have replied to any of the versus i cited. all they did was spew off about being "PC" and not judging others.

[kishg]

My statements arn't ridiculous, they are based in fact. none of them have made a valid argument. none of them have replied to any of the versus i cited. all they did was spew off about being "PC" and not judging others.

I don't give a crap about being PC. Isn't PC so 90s anyways? it's quite clear your a zealot with a twisted view that no amount of "discussion" is going to change. it's not worth arguing with zealots. keep spewing your ill-informed views, i'm sure you will find plenty of like minded folks in white garbs and hoods to agree with you. i'm done here.

[dvs909]

I don't give a crap about being PC. Isn't PC so 90s anyways? it's quite clear your a zealot with a twisted view that no amount of "discussion" is going to change. it's not worth arguing with zealots. keep spewing your ill-informed views, i'm sure you will find plenty of like minded folks in white garbs and hoods to agree with you. i'm done here.

you call me ill informed, but you haven't come back with a single argument in response to the versus i cited.
you insult me and try to negate my argument by labeling me as a zealot. no thats wrong. im not a zealot, i know what is right and stand behind it.
also if i was a zealot, why would i not be condemning everyone to hell for any nws post.

read the versus i posted and try responding to those.

[Emre]

My statements arn't ridiculous, they are based in fact.

You haven't presented any actual facts. Just unsubstantiated generalizations. The few "facts" you did present (e.g., the six pillars of Islam) were already shown to be falsehoods. We're giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you're just ill-informed rather than willfully deceptive.

you call me ill informed, but you haven't come back with a single argument in response to the versus i cited...read the versus i posted and try responding to those.

This might be news to you, but we're no longer in the Dark Ages. Throwing verses from the Bible and Quran at each other no longer constitutes a valid form of debate.

you insult me and try to negate my argument by labeling me as a zealot. no thats wrong. im not a zealot, i know what is right and stand behind it.

I think you need to look up the definition of the word "zealot." Please explain to the class why we should vilify Islamic zealots (like the shooter) but respect Christian zealots (like yourself).

[Massive Lee]

im not a zealot, i know what is right and stand behind it.

So, you "own the truth". Right?

i have read the entire bible. Genesis 19 is about lot, and when angels came to him to warn him about the impending doom of his city. a mob came to attack the angels and lot tried to offer his daughters to appease them...... but instead the angels blinded them men.. and his daughters were safe.

Wow. Now we are into fairy tales and science fiction to push your agenda of Islam being a religion of evil. Do you really live in this fictitious world? You seem to be pretty deep in your delusion.

"A delusion, in everyday language, is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception. Psychiatry defines the term more specifically as a belief that is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process). As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, apperception, illusion, or other effects of perception. Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders and particularly in schizophrenia, paraphrenia, manicbipolar disorder, and psychotic depression."

[Hallen]

Edited: forget the whole thing. I don't want to get into it.

I just wonder if you see the irony here. You talk about how Islam "preaches hate" but the only one using bigoted language is you. You are willfully distorting well-known facts just to make a (pretty ridiculous) argument. But, of course, you have your own agenda: the Bronze Age beliefs of Muslims are wrong; but your Bronze Age beliefs are correct. The fact that you don't see a problem here is pretty damned funny.

True. There are many antiquated things in religious scriptures. However, much of Arab life is also very antiquated. They are mostly a tribal society relying heavily on their mosques for law and guidance. That kind of isolation does bread ignorance and fear of the outside.

So even though those quotes are obviously aimed at the faithful to go out and eliminate non-believers, we can overlook them in the context of moderation, rational thought, and interpretative metaphor rather than literal meanings.

That doesn't change Sharia though. Can you condone honor killings and ritualistic subjugation of women? That does still happen. Yes, I am sure that the majority of Muslims, especially Muslims who live in the west, do not adhere to Sharia law, or only pick and choose what parts to adhere to, but there are a still a startling number of killings by western world Muslims. There is a level of archaic barbarism to the religion that have not progressed with the rest of the modern world. This stuff isn't exclusive to Muslims of course, but that is no justification for any of it. It is only natural to tie Sharia back into Islam and conclude that the religion condones acts of violence as long as it is justified by Allah. Yes, I also realize that Christianity has a bloody past and that the bible can be read such that violence is condoned in certain situations. However, we haven't seen western Christianity practiced that way in hundreds of years... not in any large or organized way.

What all of this has to do with a nut-job in Texas, I'm not sure. Yeah, he was Muslim and his religious beliefs may have fueled an already sick mind, but I seriously doubt he was a Islamic terrorist.

[joshh]

True. There are many antiquated things in religious scriptures. However, much of Arab life is also very antiquated. They are mostly a tribal society relying heavily on their mosques for law and guidance. That kind of isolation does bread ignorance and fear of the outside.

So even though those quotes are obviously aimed at the faithful to go out and eliminate non-believers, we can overlook them in the context of moderation, rational thought, and interpretative metaphor rather than literal meanings.

That doesn't change Sharia though. Can you condone honor killings and ritualistic subjugation of women? That does still happen. Yes, I am sure that the majority of Muslims, especially Muslims who live in the west, do not adhere to Sharia law, or only pick and choose what parts to adhere to, but there are a still a startling number of killings by western world Muslims. There is a level of archaic barbarism to the religion that have not progressed with the rest of the modern world. This stuff isn't exclusive to Muslims of course, but that is no justification for any of it. It is only natural to tie Sharia back into Islam and conclude that the religion condones acts of violence as long as it is justified by Allah. Yes, I also realize that Christianity has a bloody past and that the bible can be read such that violence is condoned in certain situations. However, we haven't seen western Christianity practiced that way in hundreds of years... not in any large or organized way.

What all of this has to do with a nut-job in Texas, I'm not sure. Yeah, he was Muslim and his religious beliefs may have fueled an already sick mind, but I seriously doubt he was a Islamic terrorist.

You make some very good points.



What's happening here is the American media is afraid to call this what it is.
He's an American soldier....
he's an American...
he's a Muslim....
he's a doctor...
he killed 13 people....

yes he committed a terrorist action......but you cannot discount the rest.

As soon as his connection is made to any terrorist organization is as far as this whole "he's a terrorist" thing should go.

This was a religious killing...from a Muslim. This type of thing is far more common with Muslims than with any other religion.

[kishg]

This was a religious killing...from a Muslim. This type of thing is far more common with Muslims than with any other religion.

can you post a link to the data on that? over what period of time are we talking about?

[joshh]

can you post a link to the data on that? over what period of time are we talking about?

You're expecting to see a study on this?

How many Christians, Buddhists or any other religious people strap bombs to themselves and blow people up, cut people's heads off, stone people to death, treat women like shit, shoot their fellow military men or run over their daughter because she wont follow the Muslim religion?

Yes yes I know every one of those instances are simply extremeists. Every religion has it's extremeist....blah blah blah.

I'd like to think they are peacefull and loving but they just keep proving otherwise.

[kishg]

You're expecting to see a study on this?

How many Christians, Buddhists or any other religious people strap bombs to themselves and blow people up, cut people's heads off, stone people to death, treat women like shit, shoot their fellow military men or run over their daughter because she wont follow the Muslim religion?

Yes yes I know every one of those instances are simply extremeists. Every religion has it's extremeist....blah blah blah.

Take it easy, just expected some facts to backup your statement is all.. i am originally from Sri Lanka, do a google search on Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, aka LTTE. You will see plenty of people blowing themselves up.