Vendor Stole My Photo

[Aptyp]

I have another question then. Going by your very first post... If I blow up one of you images full screen right now, grab my d60 and take a pic of it, does it become my intellectual property? No trick here, just wondering if I can own an experience already captured by somebody else.



Also, and I guess this has gone over a lot of people's head here. I am not against you protecting your art-work. You did all that paper work to make a statement. Great. I don't like your action after the subsequent removal of your image with a threat of a law-suit. Yes, you should have dealt with them in a more personal manner. The fact that you made this thread for other artists not get used is great too. It's just the way acted after they deleted your image. After that, even if law is on your side, it looks like extortion to me. You want monetary compensation for use of your image for a short period of time or do you want credit for your work? Or did you want to order that set of wheels? Whatever it is that you now want, looks like blackmail. I would contact them and see if there's a civil way of working this out. What's the worst thing that can happen? You'll call your attorney and carry on with your plans. That's all I'm saying.



and no, fidhlee-dee-dee, you may not crash my car, as you seem to be doing a great job with your own so far. If I left my keys in the car, unlocked and it got stolen, I really wouldn't be pointing fingers around me. I am a grown up and I don't expect for everyone to play by rules (otherwise we wouldn't need laws).

[speedminded]

Oh yes it does, it's a whole new ballgame of headaches! That's why I just ask for credit and walk away, it's too hard to track.

I still would like to make the point that the car in the picture in question probably doesn't have a single EuroStop part on it...

In their defense I believe it's their e36 fiberglass widebody kit. I don't know for a fact considering they removed the number on the door for whatever reason but it shares a likeness to the one they sell.

This photo is still on their site but I don't think it's the same car that's in my photos, the stickers are different and the number which they removed from my photo is different: http://www.dtmfiberwerkz.com/images/gtr-1.jpg

[speedminded]

Well, not only did they not contact Speedminded at all, even if out of curteousy, they made an effort to delete his watermark...

... I mean, WHAT? Aptyp can flail all he wants about how you're a douche bag, SM, but the truth is as Fidhle said, he's a retard.

I myself have several recording with a buddy on the internet and made huge steps, even though it's not a serious project and frankly we really could give a bigger crap, to protect our music. There's no reason someone should be able to hear, see, listen, to someone elses work and/or creative property and just snake it out from underneath them FOR monetary gain. And yes, Eurostop DID so for monetary gain. Very probably not malicious monetary gain, but monetary gain none the less.

As SM said, Konig contacted him. Told him they liked it and would love to use his photo. Eurostop could easily have done the same and because they are a new(ish) company just starting out, let's say they don't have the deep wallets of Konig. Very easily reconciled by letting him know that. At which point he can give permission or not, which is ALL his choice and in no way should be faulted for going either direction.

More power too you SM. Like Fidhle said, keep it all in the boundaries of "legal". I sold a car to a guy mid-paint job. He asked me if I could keep the car in my possession and finish painting it. I said sure, but informed him I'd have to put it off the whole month of December. I asked him if I could cruise to pick up paint, etc etc in it as I had no other vehicle at the time, he said sure. Half way through December I missed 3 of his calls and he flipped out. Filed a Stolen Vehicle report, cruised by my parents place (where he'd viewed the car) and cussed out my pops. I returned his calls and he tried to press charges. Luckily, his friend who had been witness to the whole thing sided with me to the cops. I gave him a half painted car and washed my hands of that bag of crazy.

Not only did they remove my watermark but they "photoshopped" the Yokohama stickers from the front bumper of the car as well as the number on the door.

I have done work for shops before and I have removed sponsors from their cars because they were are no longer under contract with them. They may have a new shop car with a new sponsor which would be a breach of contract, they can no longer legally display them, or they simply choose not too. It happens on a daily basis, considering Eurostops fake M3 widebody e30 has Toyo stickers on it I would not be surprised if that were the case here as well. As I mentioned before I have no idea what the case is but they were given 3 ways to directly contact me and discuss the situation, preferably by e-mail so there is a record of it to cover both of us.

[ck_taft325is]

Oh yes it does, it's a whole new ballgame of headaches! That's why I just ask for credit and walk away, it's too hard to track.

I still would like to make the point that the car in the picture in question probably doesn't have a single EuroStop part on it...

True story.

[Fidhle007]

Oh yes it does, it's a whole new ballgame of headaches! That's why I just ask for credit and walk away, it's too hard to track.

I still would like to make the point that the car in the picture in question probably doesn't have a single EuroStop part on it...

[speedminded]

Amen. I don't even have camera equipment, I have a violin and I don't need that to write music. You better believe I expect at least a damn email before someone wants to use something I've written. When it comes down to it, I usually don't ask for royalties, I'm just happy to help someone out and all I ask is that they credit me wherever possible. EuroStop didn't do any of the above so fuck 'em.

Aptyp is a retard. Just FYI...


I like your approach and I wish you luck with it but a word of warning, have that lawyer on speed dial! I went into an intellectual copyright battle thinking I could reason with the other party involved and keep it simple and ended up with nothing. Eventually I got the record in question pulled from production and the tracks in question were changed but all they did was write a new melody line that sounded EXACTLY like the one I'd written and place it over the old backing tracks. Sure, it cost them and their record company and assload but that's a slim victory...

oh I would not want to be in that position as a musician and I feel for you. Fortunately with photography the laws are a little more black & white. I possess the originals and there's really no way to create a similar version of anything I have done. Painters and other artists on the other hand do run into that problem.

Someone recently told me about a girl that allowed a gallery to display her paintings and then they refused to give them back. Being paintings, as in the original artwork itself, she had no way to prove they were hers. She had no prior photos or proof of any kind they were hers and she lost the case against them. All of her work gone enabling them the gallery to display them or sell them for profit. If she simply took photos and registered them, it's $10 per item or $60 for an entire CD of unlimited low res images, she would have gotten all her paintings back. Fortunately with photographs the photographer always possesses the original, be it film or file, and they loan out sell copies so nobody ever has possession making it much easier to come out on top. Music takes copyright issues to an entirely different level though!!

[Fidhle007]

You're legible? sure. You have knowledge? I'll be asking you when I start my s50 swap, yup. Don't get ahead of yourself on a lot of other points you're making, though, because neither expertise nor eloquence takes away from you being an douche on this site. You've been roasted for that a great number of times by every punk that made their way *edited for content.* On a very good number of times, I've stood up for you, just because you bring something to the table and I find you more logical and contributing than some other shit-starters.

This has nothing to do with your view on copyrighted materials. There's a law, and my statements a purely on the character of the so-called "artist", nothing more.

Lol, that's from a recent PM. I love how he states that there's a law and that my opinion isn't valid when my opinion is that Speedminded should simply FOLLOW THE FUCKING LAW.

[ck_taft325is]

Well, not only did they not contact Speedminded at all, even if out of curteousy, they made an effort to delete his watermark...

... I mean, WHAT? Aptyp can flail all he wants about how you're a douche bag, SM, but the truth is as Fidhle said, he's a retard.

I myself have several recording with a buddy on the internet and made huge steps, even though it's not a serious project and frankly we really could give a bigger crap, to protect our music. There's no reason someone should be able to hear, see, listen, to someone elses work and/or creative property and just snake it out from underneath them FOR monetary gain. And yes, Eurostop DID so for monetary gain. Very probably not malicious monetary gain, but monetary gain none the less.

As SM said, Konig contacted him. Told him they liked it and would love to use his photo. Eurostop could easily have done the same and because they are a new(ish) company just starting out, let's say they don't have the deep wallets of Konig. Very easily reconciled by letting him know that. At which point he can give permission or not, which is ALL his choice and in no way should be faulted for going either direction.

More power too you SM. Like Fidhle said, keep it all in the boundaries of "legal". I sold a car to a guy mid-paint job. He asked me if I could keep the car in my possession and finish painting it. I said sure, but informed him I'd have to put it off the whole month of December. I asked him if I could cruise to pick up paint, etc etc in it as I had no other vehicle at the time, he said sure. Half way through December I missed 3 of his calls and he flipped out. Filed a Stolen Vehicle report, cruised by my parents place (where he'd viewed the car) and cussed out my pops. I returned his calls and he tried to press charges. Luckily, his friend who had been witness to the whole thing sided with me to the cops. I gave him a half painted car and washed my hands of that bag of crazy.

[Fidhle007]

A-fucking-men, Speedminded.

What's up Aptyp's butt on this subject? Speedminded handled this 100% professionally, which is more than can be said for Eurostop at this point. It's VERY easily turned into a "lawyering up" situtation into a, "Oh shit! Our bad..." by simply communicating. The laws around what is intellectual propery and what are not is a big deal. By running a business they should be at least a little aware of what is and what is not kosher. The same could be said (not that it is a reflection of my opinion on Ari or Eurostop) that by not contacting or at least responding to Speedminded's packet in anyway, implies a certain level of douche baggery.

And for your information, I have not downloaded an mp3, movie, etc etc... not that I think that even matters and your obvious baiting with flagrantly retarded accusations dignifies a response. More over, that's not even the topic at hand.

Oh and of course, don't get monetary compensation for your hard work, Speedminded. Why would you want to do that?? (Sarcasm)

No where in any of this has Speedminded claimed he's going to sue their pants off. He just went through the correct legal channels to not get burned or told to fuck off for the time, effort, camera, lenses, batties and talent he's invested into his craft.

Amen. I don't even have camera equipment, I have a violin and I don't need that to write music. You better believe I expect at least a damn email before someone wants to use something I've written. When it comes down to it, I usually don't ask for royalties, I'm just happy to help someone out and all I ask is that they credit me wherever possible. EuroStop didn't do any of the above so fuck 'em.

Aptyp is a retard. Just FYI...

I saved them $500+ by not involving an attorney but still covered all my bases protecting myself. You seriously think a photographer should call up someone that stole their photo and ask for goods in exchange? Is that the professional way? Who wants to do business with someone that is stealing in the first place? At least Konig contacted me before they used a photo of mine for their national ad campaign circulating in over 1.5 million copies of three different magazines. They saw it, they liked it, and they contacted me to make an offer...that's an example of being professional and that's the only people I want to deal with.

I like your approach and I wish you luck with it but a word of warning, have that lawyer on speed dial! I went into an intellectual copyright battle thinking I could reason with the other party involved and keep it simple and ended up with nothing. Eventually I got the record in question pulled from production and the tracks in question were changed but all they did was write a new melody line that sounded EXACTLY like the one I'd written and place it over the old backing tracks. Sure, it cost them and their record company and assload but that's a slim victory...

[ck_taft325is]

Just to shut you up for a little while:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=152780

Your avatar is someone's intellectual property and it may sway a buyer if they take into account how swell of character you are based on it.

You're also selling a "clone" MarkD chip there... Somehow I "feel" MarkD lost money on that. Again, don't be a hypocrite.



Mr. Photographer, law is on your side... but you sure as hell aren't collecting any check-marks in the great book of life. If I was them, I wouldn't contact your ass either and just go about their business and not deal with you at all.

You kind of remind of that guy Lukas that kept starting shit with Kamotors over ebay sales. I don't remember all details, but he's not around as much.

So apparently anyone that wants to "collect check-marks in the great book of life" has to be a door mat? I don't understand your non-sense... I mean "logic". :loco:

Let me get this right... the law is on Speedminded's side. And if you where Eurostop, you'd just ignore his hard work and totally go about business as normal? So you'd knowingly ignore the law and just give Speedminded the finger over the whole ordeal instead of just simply dealing with it on a professional level? How old are you again?

[speedminded]

Just to shut you up for a little while:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=152780

Your avatar is someone's intellectual property and it may sway a buyer if they take into account how swell of character you are based on it.

You're also selling a "clone" MarkD chip there... Somehow I "feel" MarkD lost money on that. Again, don't be a hypocrite.



Mr. Photographer, law is on your side... but you sure as hell aren't collecting any check-marks in the great book of life. If I was them, I wouldn't contact your ass either and just go about their business and not deal with you at all.

You kind of remind of that guy Lukas that kept starting shit with Kamotors over ebay sales. I don't remember all details, but he's not around as much.

I saved them $500+ by not involving an attorney but still covered all my bases protecting myself. You seriously think a photographer should call up someone that stole their photo and ask for goods in exchange? Is that the professional way? Who wants to do business with someone that is stealing in the first place? At least Konig contacted me before they used a photo of mine for their national ad campaign circulating in over 1.5 million copies of three different magazines. They saw it, they liked it, and they contacted me to make an offer...that's an example of being professional and that's the only people I want to deal with.

It's no different than asking a random chick out. The worst they can say is no. The worst thing I could say to someone wanting to use my photos is I don't like the terms so lets negotiate differently.

[ck_taft325is]

A-fucking-men, Speedminded.

What's up Aptyp's butt on this subject? Speedminded handled this 100% professionally, which is more than can be said for Eurostop at this point. It's VERY easily turned into a "lawyering up" situtation into a, "Oh shit! Our bad..." by simply communicating. The laws around what is intellectual propery and what are not is a big deal. By running a business they should be at least a little aware of what is and what is not kosher. The same could be said (not that it is a reflection of my opinion on Ari or Eurostop) that by not contacting or at least responding to Speedminded's packet in anyway, implies a certain level of douche baggery.

And for your information, I have not downloaded an mp3, movie, etc etc... not that I think that even matters and your obvious baiting with flagrantly retarded accusations dignifies a response. More over, that's not even the topic at hand.

Oh and of course, don't get monetary compensation for your hard work, Speedminded. Why would you want to do that?? (Sarcasm)

No where in any of this has Speedminded claimed he's going to sue their pants off. He just went through the correct legal channels to not get burned or told to fuck off for the time, effort, camera, lenses, batties and talent he's invested into his craft.

[Fidhle007]

Good boy, now read #2 and then read #1... repeat to do so until it sinks in... Hypocrisy in action...


I'm not saying stealing is right, all I'm saying everyone in this digital day and age has done it. Don't be a sour-puss over one image.

Seriously, shut the fuck up before we hurt you. You have obviously never created anything original in your life and if you had, it would probably suck.

Tell you what, I'm just going to take your car without asking and crash it. Then, I expect you to just be cool with it because you left it unlocked. We cool bro, right?

[Fidhle007]

I just want to understand something... You took a pic of their product on your own free time, not being commissioned to do so, right? So you came home and posted your pics online for the world to enjoy. Owner of the car that you took pics of, probably saw them and most likely kept them, as they're pretty bad-ass. DTMFW saw pics of their product and used them, because, face it, it's their product on their customer's car. Now you're getting your panties in a bunch.

Maybe law will be on your side here, but you're still coming off as a douche. And proof of that, is that fidhlee-do-da agrees with you. Am I right or am I right, r3v?


Seriously, though. Your photography is very impressive, you're very good at what you do. Contact Ari and be above all this nonsense. It would be much better for both sides and maybe it could be your new gig, since you like going to tracks taking pics, you may get more opportunities of taking pics of their products. Maybe get your name on their site and be linked to yours. This would be a good way for you to self-promote and not be a bitter artist-wannabe.

Listening to these dimwhits, you'd think they've never downloaded an mp3 off the internet. Most likely they have, and most likely they don't feel any guilt over it. Don't be such hypocrites.



And I'd still want to know about code on your site... PM me or something.

First of all, a lot more people like me then like you because I am actually funny AND I know what the fuck I'm talking about. If you're nice to me and ask me a question that's well-formed and legible, I'll answer quickly and accurately. Sadly, not many people here can do that...

Moving on to the bigger issue, very little of the photos used on that site are of EuroStop products. Maybe you would use an opportunity like this to try and get some free parts but for the rest of us that realize that most of the products sold off of that website are pure, unadulterated shit, it's a pointless endeavor. I agree with Speedminded because he's in the right. I, as well as being a professional BMW tech, happen to be a professional musician and I have a lot of experience with intellectual copyright issues.

[Aptyp]

1) No. I have never once downloaded a MP3 BUT I have used copied software. Guilty yes and I have no way to justify it. During those times AutoDesk or Adobe never came knocking on my door, if they had then I would be forced to accept the penalty. I personally discovered the infringement of my own work and I started knocking on doors.

2) Regarding torrents, you find it acceptable for someone to make money from advertisers while distributing illegal creative artwork? 404 Logic Not Found. What about the musicians that produced the music or the directors and producers of the movies? Should we disregard their talent? The same goes for software engineers.

Good boy, now read #2 and then read #1... repeat to do so until it sinks in... Hypocrisy in action...


I'm not saying stealing is right, all I'm saying everyone in this digital day and age has done it. Don't be a sour-puss over one image.