does faith make you a better person?

[ben312]

There is no way to prove or disprove a "big bang." Its funny and ignorant of both of you to fight about it. Well its true that humans have never been able to make something from nothing, it does not mean it is impossible. Black holes, for example, they suck up countless amounts of light and mass and no one has any idea where it goes. At the same time there is black matter floating around, also unexplainable as of this point in time. There are many things in the universe that are far behond what we know, and may very well at some point change what we think we know. ANYTHING scientific is only proven as humans can prove it, it DOES NOT mean it is a universal law.

[Turf1600]

Everyone needs something to believe in, simply because no one know what will happen next. Hope is faith. Wishes, goals, ambitions, desires, they're all faith-based.

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This makes no sense.

[LBJefferies]

Perhaps we're debating the wrong thing here. Let me be clear, the Big Bang theory, while in and of itself is flawed, still hasn't explained clearly or in any logical way, how things began. There was nothing. Then there was something. A compression of hot gases that are cooling (Cosmic Background Radiation). Then stuff happend, the "bang". Which wasn't a bang. Just something that happend.

Something can't come from nothing. One of the ONLY things the big bang theory determined circa '68-'70 (S. Hawking, G. Ellis, R. Penrose) is that there was a beginning to time. Which they expounded from Einstein's relativity theory.

TBB is the as sure as Gravity? Yet it's totally unexplainable?

You're right. I'm totally ignorant...

The mechanism (God if you want to call it that) is unexplainable but the Big Bang is not. The Big Bang theory really has nothing to do with the mechanism. All the Big Bang says is that the universe is expanding so at one point all matter must have been compressed into an infinitely small and dense point.

It's the same way with evolution. Evolution doesn't concern the mechanism which brought life into existence (Again, God if you want to call it that). It merely explains how things are the way they are currently.

There is still room for God within science as long as you give up on the literal interpretation of the Bible. Some people, both scientists and religious folk, have a really hard time grasping this concept.

[LBJefferies]

This makes no sense.

Actually it makes a lot of sense. If you didn't have any hope, wishes, desires, ambitions, etc. would life even be worth living? People have faith that these things will be fulfilled which keeps them from jumping in front of a bus. It is also why so many people are depressed and commit suicide because they lose faith in these things being fulfilled.

[Turf1600]

The mechanism (God if you want to call it that) is unexplainable but the Big Bang is not. The Big Bang theory really has nothing to do with the mechanism. All the Big Bang says is that the universe is expanding so at one point all matter must have been compressed into an infinitely small and dense point.

It's the same way with evolution. Evolution doesn't concern the mechanism which brought life into existence (Again, God if you want to call it that). It merely explains how things are the way they are currently.

There is still room for God within science as long as you give up on the literal interpretation of the Bible. Some people, both scientists and religious folk, have a really hard time grasping this concept.

There's plenty of room for god if you disregard everything else.

[Jand3rson]

Tom, I want to know if you came back to this site for ANY OTHER REASON than to continue making and posting in threads of this type. Do you even have an E30 anymore? Do you post in any other section besides off-topic? Do you offer anything relevant to the E30 community?

[Turf1600]

Actually it makes a lot of sense. If you didn't have any hope, wishes, desires, ambitions, etc. would life even be worth living? People have faith that these things will be fulfilled which keeps them from jumping in front of a bus. It is also why so many people are depressed and commit suicide because they lose faith in these things being fulfilled.

I'm just not grasping how that's considered faith?

[Streichholzschächtelchen]

fuck all that shit. Holy fucking shit you guys are crazy. I control me. Miracles are just highly improbable things happening. When I die I'm going to feed worms. There is nothing above us, and there is no heaven or hell to go to so I can freely say it without fear, god, you can suck my balls.

[LBJefferies]

I'm just not grasping how that's considered faith?

Because you have no control over it. You have no proof that good things are going to happen. You just have to believe that good things will happen.

[Streichholzschächtelchen]

Because you have no control over it. You have no proof that good things are going to happen. You just have to believe that good things will happen.

Based on..... and it's supposedly going to change the outcomes?

[LBJefferies]

Based on..... and it's supposedly going to change the outcomes?

I never said that the outcomes would change. Read my other post. Would you rather live your life believing that the future will be good and your goals and wishes will be fulfilled? Or would you rather live your life believing that the future is a bottomless pit of pain and despair? This is exactly why people are depressed and commit suicide. They lose hope that the future holds any good and kill themselves to end the pain. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Turf1600]

Because you have no control over it. You have no proof that good things are going to happen. You just have to believe that good things will happen.

Wow. No. I have absolutely no faith. I could get hit by a car tomorrow and my wife would have to pay the bills. I'm just happy to be here today.

[Hallen]

I never said that the outcomes would change. Read my other post. Would you rather live your life believing that the future will be good and your goals and wishes will be fulfilled? Or would you rather live your life believing that the future is a bottomless pit of pain and despair? This is exactly why people are depressed and commit suicide. They lose hope that the future holds any good and kill themselves to end the pain. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In this particular case, Holmes is basically right. Faith in a god or faith that things will get better if you work hard enough, or get lucky, or whatever it happens to be, they are all related and it is about faith. Without that faith, that belief that that life is worth living, then you have nothing left to live for.

Faith, in the exclusive context of belief in God, is a bit different than faith that things will get better because faith in God tells you that things that are completely out of your control will make things better for you. Some people have ridiculous faith, like "I know I will win the lottery" and those people easily lose their faith because they are dependent on pure luck. But people that have faith in hard work and intelligence, will normally hold onto their faith.

Faith in God is very contradictory about that kind of thing and that's where the suspension of disbelief has to come into play. You accept the contradictions by accepting that we are not able to understand God's plan.

Either way, God, or internally driven, it is all about faith that things will get better for you, or that things will continue to be good for you. It's what holds us to our pitiful little lives. People with faith in God also believe that things will get better for you after you die and I think that does help people face that inevitable future. It's why you see a lot of older people who shunned religion in their younger years fall back on it as they get older. Or, it could mean they have simply gotten wiser... :)

[TheB1G Lebowski]

Its a personal choice. Im a Christian but im not gonna shove it down your throat. I dont like people dropping GD bombs around me, but im not gonna get all bitchy if you do but ask that you dont if its every other word.

I dont think anyone is better than any other person Religion doesnt make you a better person physically, but more mentally for your own self. If that makes sense. Basically you arent doing it for someone else, you are doing it for yourself. Thats how I feel, I would prefer to see more people with faith. But its like smoking, you make the choice and if thats how you want to do it then thats how you shall do it.

[Mr Two]

Words

Lots of things wrong here. Only hard line atheism requires "faith", because as stated earlier you cannot prove or disprove something with 100% certainty. It's not a religious doctrine - it literally means the absence of theism.

Care to back up your dismissal of Big Bang Theory? I like how you bolded 'theory' - it shows you have a clear misunderstanding of the word's use in science. Scientific theory =/= hypothesis. Many people seem to hold this misconception when criticizing evolution. A quick search should explain it for you.

This planet was not created in seven days. It's ~4.5 billion years old. Radiometric dating is extremely accurate.

"Expelled" is a horrible attempt at supporting ID as a rational idea.

There's a reason why Lee laughed at you - your claims are completely ridiculous. As he said, you may as well go back to believing in a heliocentric universe.

You don't need faith to believe life is worth living. "...hope, wishes, desires, ambitions, etc" are completely separate from faith. Keep in mind that the use of faith here refers to belief in god.